Reporting and analysis by Mathew Carr
Feb. 13, 2024 — This interview of journalist Tucker Carlson by Egyptian journalist Emad Eldin Adeeb….is so good I carefully translated the last bit (see below).
It follows closely on Carlson’s interview with Russia President Vladimir Putin. Former US presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said Carlson was a laughing stock in Russia and that he was a “useful idiot” … implying he was helping Putin.
Carlson said US authorities spied on him and leaked his plans to interview Putin to the NYT, delaying the Putin interview.
Carlson said the US had become a totalitarian state and he implied America was “deeply offensive” for stoking violence instead of being the “father” of the world and preventing violence as a first step.
Best Carlson quotes:
‘Every leader kills people, including my leader [Biden], every leader kills people, some kill more than others. Leadership requires killing people, sorry. It’s why I wouldn’t want to be a leader…
…That press restriction is universal in the United States. I know because I’ve lived it.’
Media information in a free country is a counterbalance against entrenched power, not just government power, but the economic power [of] business…
…In my country constitutionally it is designed to serve as a counterbalance to that. So if sources of information —media outlets — align with entrenched power, then you have a powerless population… and it’s totalitarian.
…And that is very quickly the direction the United States is headed. And I do think that technology abets this progression and machine learning, especially.
So if I come home and I have two kids fighting and I say “go go beat the crap out of him,” I am evil, because I violated the most basic duty of fatherhood, which is to bring peace because I have the power. I’m the only one who can bring peace.
And so if you see a nation with awesome power, abetting war for its own sake, you have a leadership that has no moral authority …that is illegitimate.
And we’re in this sort of weird spiral where our leaders lecture us ever more about democracy and how sacred it is, even as they choke it off, choke it to death. ‘
It’s a black and white. It’s a zero and a one. You are either creating or you’re destroying, you’re improving or you’re degrading. And that’s how you know whether something is good or bad …whether it’s virtuous or evil.
You just judge the fruits…
… By its fruits, you will know it …
… and I’m very distressed and concerned that we’re entering an era where this awesome force for good is instead being used for evil.
I divide the world not between Muslim, Jew and Christian or Buddhist… I divide the world between people who believe they are God, and people who know they’re not.
…And the only people I trust are in the second category, because that is the beginning of wisdom … when you know you are not God that you cannot affect every change that you want.
….You can’t foresee the future … that you’re not omnipotent, then you are much more likely to make good decisions …wise, humane decisions.‘
Full transcript below with context
Carlson: I didn’t go to Russia, of course, to promote Vladimir Putin. [15.33 of the video tweeted by Carlson and embedded above into this story] And if that was my purpose I’d say so, because I’m not embarrassed. I went because I felt that most Americans in whose name all of this is being done don’t really know what’s happening and they know nothing about the guy they are supposedly at war with …unofficially.
I just felt that my job — if I have a job in this world — is to bring information to people so they can decide.
…And so I wanted to do the longest interview I could with Vladimir Putin that contained the most amount of Vladimir Putin talking …not me, grandstanding about what a great person I am …when an American journalist interviews someone like Vladimir Putin the whole point of the interview is to say: “I’m a good person and you’re not.”
“And that interview is aimed at his colleagues in the newsroom in the United States. [mimics bad interviewer]I’m a good person, why are you such a bad person? You’re committing genocide…ok …
That’s not fruitful. And that’s certainly not my role. I care what God thinks of me, what my wife thinks of me and what my four children think of me … and that’s all I care about. So I don’t need to prove that I’m a good person. I want to hear Vladimir Putin talk so people in my country can assess what’s happening.
Interviewer Adeeb: I’ll use the devil’s advocate.
Carlson: Advocate away.
Adeeb: … you should challenge — in the rules of an interview — and you’re a master in your in your business. It’s not for me to give you a lecture about that. ….But you should challenge some ideas. For instance …you didn’t talk about freedom of speech in Russia and did not talk about Navalny, about assassinations, about …the restrictions on opposition in the coming elections…
Carlson: I didn’t talk about the things that every other American media outlet talks about exclusively because those are covered and because I have spent my life talking to people who run countries in various countries and have concluded the following:
… that every leader kills people, including my leader, every leader kills people, some kill more than others. Leadership requires killing people, sorry. It’s why I wouldn’t want to be a leader…
…That press restriction is universal in the Unite‘Every leader kills people, including my leader [Biden], every leader kills people, some kill more than others. Leadership requires killing people, sorry. It’s why I wouldn’t want to be a leader…
…That press restriction is universal in the United States. I know because I’ve lived it.
I’ve had a lot of jobs.
And I’ve done this for 34 years, and I know how it works. There’s more censorship in Russia than there is in the United States. But there’s a great deal in United States.
And so, you know, at a certain point … people can decide whether they think, you know, what, what countries they think are better what systems they think are better.
“I just want to know what he thinks that was the whole point.
Adeeb: And yes, I was very surprised about an inappropriate (sic) remark. I don’t think it is contains any of the what you can call jauntiness or niceties from Mrs. Clinton, when she mentioned a phrase about you. I don’t want to repeat that.
Carlson: Oh, you’re not gonna hurt my feelings.
Adeeb: [She said this] honourable gentleman [tapping Carlson on the shoulder] that he is playing the role of a … useful idiot [Carlson shrugs at this point and earlier interrupted Adeeb to say about Clinton: “She’s a child. I don’t listen to her. How’s Libya doing?] and [Adeeb continues] if you see the interview it has nothing to do with this at all. [ie nothing to do with Carlson being a useful idiot.]
He [Carlson] was trying to get testimony about the world as Putin sees it. And this is exactly what we need to know — how this man thinks. Either you consider him an enemy or you consider him a friend or you consider him a dictator…
Carlson: you put it better than I could … you just described my motive right there.
Adeeb: … if that is that, as they say in the United States, and this is the power of media, and the way the media is becoming very biassed in a deep state like America, where are we going in the model of democracy in the world?
Carlson: media information in a free country is a counterbalance against entrenched power, not just government power, but the economic power [of] business.
In my country constitutionally it is designed to serve as a counterbalance to that. So if sources of information —media outlets — align with entrenched power, then you have a powerless population… and it’s totalitarian.
…And that is very quickly the direction the United States is headed. And I do think that technology abets this progression and machine learning especially and so …
[interesting choice of word here — aiding and abetting is usually associated with crime]
…it’s a perilous moment … if we’re a democracy, purportedly. And a prerequisite for democracy is information … so if the electorate can make up its mind and decide who to choose.
…And so if you don’t have access to information, you don’t have democracy….
And we’re in this sort of weird spiral where our leaders lecture us ever more about democracy and how sacred it is, even as they choke it off, choke it to death.
…And so I think the people who provide information and bring the facts to the public have a critical role to play and right now it’s difficult.
… I don’t mean to couch myself as a hero. I’m certainly not a hero at all. But I do think it’s tougher and tougher to do that and that means we have a greater obligation to do it.
Adeeb: Sir. Do you have an explanation to this moment since the Gaza events took place? Till now nobody came out and said, How on earth, the United States of America is vetoing the stoppage of fire ….how a country would veto, not to continue war, how somebody is against stopping a war?
Carlson: The United States is for this moment is the most powerful country in the history of the world. So if you were to frame this in terms we’re all familiar with, which are the most basic terms the terms of the family, …the United States would be Dad … would be the father.
And the father’s sacred obligation is to protect his family and to restore peace within his walls. I have four children …So if I come home from work and two of my kids are fighting, what’s the first thing I do? … even before I assess why they’re fighting …before I gather the facts and know what’s happening?
[ The first thing is to stop fighting] So if I come home and I have two kids fighting and I say “go go beat the crap out of him,” I am evil, because I violated the most basic duty of fatherhood, which is to bring peace because I have the power. I’m the only one who can bring peace.
And so if you see a nation with awesome power, abetting war for its own sake, you have a leadership that has no moral authority …that is illegitimate.
And I mean that too, and I’m not even referring to any specific region or conflict. I mean, generally.
And I’m deeply offended by that …deeply.
And it’s something that I try to express and I’m often called a traitor for saying that …
… it’s the opposite. I say that because I believe in the United States. I think it has been a morally superior country… And if we allow our leaders to use our power to spread destruction for its own sake, that is shameful.
…It’s a binary, okay, … it’s a black and white. It’s a zero and a one. You are either creating or you’re destroying, you’re improving or you’re degrading. And that’s how you know whether something is good or bad whether it’s virtuous or evil.
You just judge the fruits. By its fruits, you will know it …
… and I’m very distressed and concerned that we’re entering an era where this awesome force for good is instead being used for evil.
[by the way the AI I used to help with this translation said “used for you” here instead of “used for evil” —- which gets to Carlson’s point about machine learning and its potential evil]
Adeeb: two quick questions before I run out of time. First question is now in American elections, we have probabilities, either it’s Biden and Trump, or Biden and somebody else, not Trump, or no Biden and no Trump and circumstances or fate get us two different people representing Republican or Democrats. What do you think where are we going to reach coming 19th of November? Who will be running the show?
Carson: Honestly I haven’t the faintest idea. But I think there’s volatility ahead in our political sphere, when clearly there is …
Adeeb: I like you when you said I don’t have an idea. You have this courage of to say that you don’t know. You were telling me this morning. That what one of the things which you like very much about here [UAE], our president Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed …God bless him… When you ask him a question, if he doesn’t have an answer it and actually I don’t know the answer of this question.
Carlson: I’ve never heard a leader of anything, whether it’s a country or a company or a soccer team, ever in my life in a life spent interviewing people… I’ve never heard a single one of them. So you know, I don’t I don’t know the answer is …it’s very complicated. I haven’t figured it out. I’ve never heard anybody say that.
And to me, that is this the purest sign of wisdom because wisdom grows from humility. Wisdom grows, from the recognition that you are not God.
In in the United States, we had a period where we were sort of you know, having this debate about are some religions good and some religions bad.
I’ll tell you my view on it. And it’s a hardened view. It’s a sincere view. I divide the world not between Muslim Jew and Christian or Buddhist I divide the world between people who believe they are God, and people who know they’re not.
…And the only people I trust are in the second category, because that is the beginning of wisdom when you know you are not God that you cannot affect every change that you want.
….You can’t foresee the future … that you’re not omnipotent, then you are much more likely to make good decisions …wise, humane decisions.
By contrast, when you believe you have the power to shape the world and other people as we were hearing this morning … through biohacking. …When you think you can create a better human being through technology, you’re very dangerous …
… because you don’t understand your own limits. You will get a lot of people killed when you when you have those false beliefs in my opinion.
Adeeb: By this note, Mr. Carlson, thank you very much for giving us this chance to come for the first time after your great interview [with Putin], to talk to the world through this podium, and this country. And my humble sir. Thank you.
Carlson: So … thank you for having me.