–Crime gangs and mafia-like groups rule the world (and I’m not supposing this … it’s true)
Reporting and opinion by Mathew Carr
Sept. 19-22, 2025
ICYMI
Some of the key points in this podcast featuring Whitney Webb, a journalist and whistleblower who has an amazing capacity to remember names.
The world is run by a mafia-like cartel that combines operatives from government, the intelligence community and criminal gangs.
Governments and criminal gangs have been working together since at least 1945 (correct), about when the US invoked help from American mafia groups in WW2 to find out about the enemies of the allied forces. It might have been 1939-1945.)
Israel has used sex-scandal bribery against many politicians….especially Democrats in the USA, who were more favourable toward the Palestinian cause.
President Bill Clinton was probably pressured by Israel.
Impunity and lack of accountability for crime …has built up over many decades.
The CIA offered child sex for intelligence.
CarrZee: the world needs to stop politely asking for Epstein disclosure and start insisting on the prosecution of CIA crimes.
Take a couple of hours out of your life (a small investment) to get with the program (forgive me)… hint, it’s not really about Mr Epstein, it’s about how your ruling political party probably doesn’t care about you as a human, a person who hates crime:
(I initially wrote 2045 instead of 1945, apologies for the confusion — I mean …how can any sane person think that this has been going on for 8 decades? WTF)
Notes
https://claude.ai/share/a4f85f23-a340-4ef9-bd3d-f89cd3aee536
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf
Transcript of podcast:
0:00Epstein was absolutely doing a lot of really shady arms trafficking stuff and financial criminality and they have uh
0:06no interest in getting deep in in the weeds there because if we know everything it opens
0:12up everything it’s Pandora’s box. Well, it is a Pandora’s box in a way. Yeah, sure. Because basically if you go,
0:19you know, as my books show, um, if you go as deep as as I went in writing those two books, and you could certainly go
0:25deeper, it basically shows that, yeah, uh, we’re the world is basically run by a meta cartel. It’s important to point
0:32out when I say Epste had a relationship with people. I’m not saying he they had a sex blackmail relationship
0:37necessarily. What we’re trying to untangle here is the truth of who Epstein was and why was he taken down.
0:43Because I don’t think he was taken down because in 2019 all of a sudden uh the US government became outraged about uh
0:50the sweetheart deal of 2007, you know, 12 years after the fact and then wanted
0:56to rectify some wrong. Um I think it was about something else. What is for you? There might be multiple
1:03answers to this, but the the biggest unanswered question that you have.
1:14Is it okay to swear? You can say whatever the [ __ ] you want. Um, okay. Although we’re not
1:20I’m not planning to swear too much. I just was curious. We’re not meant to swear in the first 15 minutes. YouTube doesn’t like it. I
1:25think we’ll be right. Anyway, good to see you, Whitney. Yeah, great to see you again, too, Peter. Beautiful part of the world. Um, okay.
1:33We’re going to talk Epstein. The uh the trail seems to have gone cold. We were promised uh all the files
1:40were going to be released. Yeah. The black book and then suddenly there’s nothing. There’s nothing to see.
1:46Well, there is the black book that was released in in 2015. Uh but beyond that,
1:51yeah. So, a lot of people were expecting all sorts of new information about the case and there was this big um I guess
1:58attempt at making it look like that happened with, you know, a bunch of influencers came to the White House and
2:03had all these binders and they were like Epstein files part one, but then it turned out a lot of those documents pretty much all of them had already been
2:09previously uh released. And uh I don’t know, it seems like the administration was expecting like that would be enough to
2:16kind of satisfy people because they did, you know, the the bells and whistles and made it look like that’s what they were
2:21doing, but then didn’t expect I guess people to be like, “So what gives?” And
2:26then with continued pushing uh you know eventually instead of getting more uh we got this dramatic reversal uh to the
2:33point where now Trump after you know a lot of the stuff about Epstein was kind of uh talked about a lot during his
2:40presidential campaign uh now it’s uh he says it’s a all a Democrat hoax.
2:46Very strange. Strange is one word for it. Yeah. Did you watch Cash Patel’s interview
2:53with Rogan? Uh, I saw clips from it. Um, but I didn’t feel like watching Cash Patel for three hours.
2:59Well, so I thought I thought Rogan did a great job. He was pushing Cash and But I that was the point I started to
3:06think this is getting a bit weird and I started to think I started to question,
3:12well, there was an opportunity for the Biden administration to use this
3:18against the Trump administration. And there’s a chance there’s been a chance for the Trump administration to use against the Biden administration. And
3:24both administrations love dirt. Yeah. Both want to attack the other one. Sure.
3:30And now both are just kind of like well kind of. So with this recent reversal um that we just talked about, a
3:38lot of Democrat congressmen are, you know, kind of smell blood in the water and were calling to release the files
3:44and all of this. But I think neither party wants things to go too deep. So, a lot of the uh benefit to partisan
3:51politics of the Epstein scandal, it only really is beneficial to either side if it’s kept very superficial, you know,
3:59and so I think, you know, releasing a tranch of documents about everything would end up implicating it would go too
4:06deep probably. That’s my assumption of why they don’t they kind of want to memory hole it now and sort of rebrand
4:13it as a hoax which is kind of challenging because a lot of Trump’s base has been very interested in the
4:18Epstein case arguably more than the Democrats voter base uh for years.
4:24Well, it feels like it’s dented the MAGA movement maybe temporarily.
4:30Maybe. We’ll see. So, is it your belief that there is a
4:36treasure trove of information that we would all be interested in? Well, there’s definitely information
FBI Raids & Missing Evidence
4:42that they should put out there, I think. So, for example, the FBI rated Epstein’s
4:47New York townhouse. They were reportedly uh binders, CDs full of multimedia
4:54content, uh all sorts of stuff. We don’t really know what was on those. uh you
4:59know we had Pam Bondi the attorney general say oh it’s on my desk and then
5:04is saying you know oh well we can’t release it cuz it’s all CP you know it’s child porn um after saying like oh no
5:11it’s release implying it was releasable but there’s also a lot of strange things that would be interesting to know like
5:18why did the FBI even though they raided Epstein’s residence in New York why did they not raid uh Zoro Ranch in New
5:24Mexico another property within the continental US why did it them up to a month to get to his island in the US
5:31Virgin Islands. As far as I’m aware, those delays are unexplained.
5:39What about the France case? Jean Luke Bernell, the one of the main or believe, you know, alleged co- conspirators of
5:46the Epstein case, uh, died in a French prison awaiting trial, much like Epstein in 2022.
5:52Uh, and we don’t really have a lot of information from French authorities about what they found as part of that
5:57investigation because obviously with Brunell not going to trial because he died, uh, it’s not going to come out in
6:02in the court, right? Also died by hanging and no surveillance footage as well.
6:08Well, I’m not sure about the circumstances of the death, but it was it was pretty much uh I I mean, it’s
6:14kind of shady. Yeah. I mean, there were there was another death related to Epsteina 2022. Um, Mark Middleton.
6:21Yes. That was completely bonkers. Hanging and shotgun. Yeah. Hanging by an Well, police say
6:28that he hung himself with an extension cord and also shot himself in the chest. Said there was no weapon at the scene.
6:34Later came back and said there was a weapon 30 ft from his body and then the judge uh sealed all evidence uh from
6:41ever being made public uh to stop the spread of harmful conspiracy theories. So, Brunell dying in prison, I’m not
6:48really the aware of the circumstances. Um, but you know, do you want to explain the connection of
6:55Brunell and Middleton to Epstein? Uh, well, they’re separate connections. So, Brunell is a lot more connected to
Suspicious Deaths Around Epstein
7:01Epstein in the sense of the sex trafficking case. So he and Epstein uh
7:06worked together on this modeling agency called MC2 uh where uh under the guise
7:13of modeling contracts, Brunell would coax a lot of women uh from places like Brazil uh from Eastern Europe in uh in
7:22Russia among other places uh to come model in the US. Epstein would pay for their visas among other expenses for
7:29this agency and they would come to the US and be housed at these apartment complexes. um that are multiple there’s
7:37multiple attestations to that being a key part of the sex trafficking uh operation. Allegedly women’s passports
7:43were taken so they were you know very controllable under those circumstances. Um and uh yeah so I mean Brunell was a
7:51key part in that sense and he also operated stuff out of Miami and Palm Beach. He had uh modeling agencies there
7:57and he was known as far back as the 1980s to be um an alleged sex trafficker and sexual predator. there was a 60
8:03Minutes expose about him and then um and an author I think his name is Michael Gross wrote a whole uh piece about a
8:11whole book about the dark side of the modeling industry and a key focus of his work was Jean Luke Bernell um so he’s
8:19you know pretty well known as being a an accomplice um of of Epstein and court
8:25documents and and beyond and Middleton was Middleton was the main person that
8:31Epstein was meeting with when he was going to the Clinton White House in the 1990s. And he went a lot. Uh well, he went 17 times between 93 and
8:39January 95 and Middleton left in February 95. So basically, you know,
8:44there’s a more or less a coinciding between the end of Epstein going to the Clinton White House and and Middleton
8:51Middleton’s ouster from there. Yeah. And in Middleton’s suicide
8:57uh happened shortly after the extent of those meetings was revealed. So, it was known that Epste had been to the White
9:02House a few times, but they didn’t the full extent. The 17 meetings, most of them were with Middleton. That
9:08information came out in 2022, and a few months later, this incident uh with
9:13Middleton takes place. There appears to be a lot of a lot of people connected to the Clintons who’ve
9:20died. I think you said in an interview, I heard there was like another 34 that haven’t been listed.
9:26Uh oh, yeah. Well, that has to do with the Commerce Department. Um so this is part of this broader scandal and it’s a
Epstein, Clintons & Chinagate
9:32very complicated but I I try and delineate it in my book but basically there was this whole um airliner or this
9:39whole airplane that was carrying people from the commerce department uh including the secretary of commerce Ron
9:45Brown and their plane uh you know crashed in Croatia under kind of dubious circumstances
9:52and um yeah I would argue that those were kind of uh I don’t really think
9:59that plane crash was an accident and I explain why in my book. Um, but there’s lots of uh Ron Brown had just agreed to
10:06testify as part of this broader case involving corruption involving the Clinton families in this scandal that
10:11Middleton and I I argue in my book Epstein was a part of called China. It’s remembered as China Gate, but it was
10:18definitely something much bigger bigger than that. We can get into that later. It’s very insane. See what what I can’t
10:24figure out is so listening to your book reading your most recent article there
10:32seems to be a large network of elites which can be anything from business you
10:37know successful business people billionaires finance people politicians
10:43presidents uh yeah NOS’s
10:48uh sure um uh secret services this like this huge
10:53network of people and I can’t work out is there a big coordinated network of
10:59elites who work together or is it just once you get into the elites maybe you
11:04think you can get away with a few things you can maybe do some corrupt deals and if you’ve got the right connections you
11:10can get away with it if you step too far out of line that you you might go to jail or be killed I can’t try quite get my head
11:17around it but that it does come across that that all governments are basically mafias
Are Governments Mafias?
11:23Yeah, I mean that’s kind of my view. Um, so basically what I argue in in my book is that the network behind Epstein and
11:30the reason why there’s so many powerful people in this in this group um is because it’s born out of this union uh
11:36that occurred during World War II um between organized crime and the nent US
11:42intelligence apparatus which of course there was a lot of British involvement with that when in the creation of you
11:48know the CIA and the OSS and all of that. um in World War II. Um but the the
11:54that alliance officially happened. It’s known as Operation Underworld. Uh even though the US intelligence community
12:00denied it for several decades, they now admit it. Um but that alliance, you know, it was justified at a wartime
12:06necessity. We have to team up with the mob to stop to win the war, right? Uh but after the war, the alliance provably
12:14continued. So, uh, ultimately what that hap what essentially what
12:19happened then is that a lot of these rackets that were previously of organized crime, uh, you know, arms
12:24traff trafficking, drugs trafficking, sex trafficking, prostitution, whatever, uh, became, you know, rackets of
12:32intelligence services in what way? Well, I mean, there’s a litany of of evidence of the CIA being
12:39involved in in drug trafficking and arms trafficking uh via illegal uh means uh
12:47for many decades. And a lot of those networks that the CIA used go back to the same nexus. I mean, that’s basically
12:53what volume one of my uh of my book is about. But what why would they be in bed with
12:58these criminals? What is great business? uh the CIA uh in the OSS
13:04were really mostly Wall Street people, Wall Street lawyers and bankers. Uh and it was great business for them to team
13:10up with these people. So basically, it’s a new market. It’s an it’s an it’s a a legal market with state protection. And
Mob, CIA & WWII Ties
13:17so the CIA more often than not has gone over the competition for those markets. Um, and that’s why you have all these
13:24scandals, but no accountability for the CIA being involved in drug trafficking, arms trafficking, um, and all sorts of
13:31scandals over the years. But there’s never been any accountability since, you know, there was an effort with it at the, you know, during the Church
13:37Committee, um, in the late ‘7s. But since then, the CIA investigates itself
13:43and exonerates itself every time. Okay. Sorry, I’m just trying to get my head around this. So, so whilst the CIA,
13:50Central Intelligence Agency is meant to be protecting US interests, yeah, abroad,
13:56they define US interests, I think, as something than what the American public is. So, if you look at um the CIA’s
14:03earliest coups, their earliest regime change operations, they were done on behalf of very powerful multinational
14:09corporations like Anglo-American Oil in Iran and the United Fruit Company in
14:14Guatemala, some of the earliest examples. So to them protecting US interests is protecting uh the interest
14:21not necessarily of the American people but of massive Americanbased m you know multinational corporations. So it’s all
14:29economic defense in a sense arguably economic defense because wasn’t the Guatemala didn’t they didn’t didn’t
14:35they remove a kind of socialist leader who wanted to return land to the Guatemalans well that historically has happened been
14:42the justification for a lot of it and a lot of the justification was sort of cold war era stuff we don’t want this
14:48leader to become close to the Soviets uh ergo we must remove him from power but
14:55you know the the means of that have been pretty scandalous especially if you look
15:00at you know what came downstream of some of those governments um in Latin America for example uh Chile being a notable
15:08example where you know Henry Kissinger in the CIA in 1973 orchestrated a coup against Salvador Aende and then Agusto
15:15Pino takes over um and you know it’s obviously a still very uh sore spot in
15:22Chilean politics uh but objectively there’s a lot of things Pino did that are really indefensible He teamed up
15:28with a, you know, a a German pedophile guy who ran this place called Colonia Dignad with uh his government’s
15:35approval. Um, a lot of people tied to the Pinoa government were involved in basically trafficking babies um that
15:42were stolen from their mothers and then sent to adoption agencies at the US. People made money off of this um and
15:49nothing was done. And he had a lot of really shady bank accounts, did shady arms deals. So, okay, the the socialist
15:55guy is gone, but you know, was it really any um did it really justify all this other
16:01stuff? I mean, I’m probably going to get in trouble for getting into Chilean stuff just because like um you know, uh
16:08people will accuse me of defending one side or the other, but I think you know obviously Pinochade engaged in behavior
16:14that was really really bad and should you know and it’s interfering with the democratic process.
How the CIA Enables Crime
16:21Well, yeah, of course. I mean, people people elect a leader and then the CIA comes in and deposes them and puts in a
16:27dictator. It’s I mean, they’ve done this around the world over and over over and over again.
16:33And I mean, it’s not even they’ve also interfered in elections throughout Europe. Uh they engaged in things like
16:38uh Operation Gladadio where that was basically teaming up with um you know, the Italian mafia um uh interests of the
16:46Vatican uh you know, and the CIA backed terror groups in in Europe. um that
16:52there those terrorist activities were blamed on left-leaning people in order to get people to vote with right-leaning parties to prevent uh European countries
16:59from affiliating themselves with you know the Soviet Union. But would they have even have done that? I don’t know.
17:06Um I mean it was a preemptive thing and so I mean eventually um but I mean again
17:12this is how the CIA justifies the stuff to itself. I would argue that a lot of it was about economic interests and at
17:18the same time you know a lot of these actors uh were involved in sort of backrooms deals with you know either
17:25Soviet intelligence um and you know or Chinese intelligence or the Chinese
17:31military you know that’s sort of what the China gate thing ultimately circles back to and um there’s
17:38tell me about that well really quick I want to bring up this point um so Samuel Pisar very close
17:45friend of Robert Maxwell who I’m sure we’ll get into later. Um he was a lawyer
17:50um among other things. He testified to Congress in the early 70s about what he saw happening and he talked about the
17:56rise of the trans ideological corporation where US multinational corporations were basically um entering
18:04into all these joint ventures and becoming extremely entangled uh with stateowned companies of the communist
18:10east in Russia and China. and he said that this was creating a new economic system of governance uh that was making
18:17the nation state irrelevant and this is in the early ‘7s and a congressman was like well do you think this is a bad
18:22thing and he was like not necessarily and he was actually at the forefront of making that happen
18:28and a lot of these people including people like Robert Maxwell um you know
18:34did try and and further that kind of vision you know so ultimately if that was
18:40happening at the early 70s and they admitted it. Um, you know, a lot of these actors that justified things out
18:46of cold the necessity of the Cold War, just like they justified it with the, you know, out of the necessity of World
18:51War II, it it really doesn’t add up with what the public justification is.
Rise of Global Corporations
18:57Is it is it even possible to understand what the mandate of the CIA is that? Because it seems very
19:03well, it’s supposed to be to protect American national security, but national security for a long time has been this
19:09huge catchall, right? the US has justified all sorts of things under the guise of national security um
19:16and you know presumably continued to do so. So you know I don’t really give that a lot of weight. I mean, so um as an
19:25example, like the Reagan administration when Iran Contra was being investigated,
19:30it there was a line of questioning brought up about how the group that was responsible for that in the Reagan
19:36administration had developed something called the continuity of government protocols whereby um under a vaguely
19:42defined national emergency, basically the entire American Constitution could be suspended. Um pretty scandalous
19:49stuff. Um, and one of the uh examples of this vaguely defined uh national
19:55emergency was a uh widespread uh nonviolent uh opposition to US military
20:02intervention abroad. And when a congressman tried to ask Oliver North about this at the Iran Contra uh trial,
20:09they basically shut down the hearing under the guise of national security.
20:14But if you That’s crazy. Well, if you think the economic strength of the US is national security, you can that’s a catch all for
20:20protecting the American multinational corporations that openly admitted if you believe
20:25peace are intermingling with uh the the stateowned companies of you know China
20:31and Russia are ostensible adversaries. But you could you can justify the protection of a multinational in another
20:37country by changing the administration and you could or redomiciling them. Sure. Yeah. or
20:42allowing or turning a blind eye to banks banking money from drug trafficking.
20:49Yeah, of course. And so it then creates a different set of rules for those within the elite gang
20:56of what they can and can’t do from what you and I as mere plebs. So taking this back to the Epstein
21:02scandal, I think that’s why they only want to keep the discussion at sex trafficking because it’s wider than sex.
21:08Because it’s wider than that. Epstein was absolutely doing a lot of really shady arms trafficking stuff and financial criminality and they have uh
21:15no interest in getting deep in in the weeds there because that exposes other people.
21:21Sure. Absolutely. And basically, you know, this illusion that um our world
21:26operates the way, you know, we’re told it operates. Yeah. But I think we know it doesn’t
21:32anymore. The veil has been lifted. I think the only worry is is they Yeah.
21:38We move on. so quickly we just forget about this Epstein thing and it’s just this thing in the past. Yeah. Well, it’s been pretty persistent in not
21:45being forgotten about which I think now, you know, in the case of the Trump administration, they really wish people
21:50would move along and forget about it. But it does feel like for the LA, ever since Trump came out, the last few
21:55weeks, it feels like it has been going cold. People have been talking about it a bit less.
22:00Yeah, maybe. Well, uh I mean so much is going on in the US with US policy that
22:05it’s uh you know, stuff that’s huge news. you know, it gets end up buried and a few days later and I, you know, I
22:11mean, a decade ago it would have been a huge multi-monthlong story. Now it’s just a blip. I mean, the news cycle is
22:17just so fast. Yeah. Too. So, I mean, there’s a lot of reasons why that could be, but I mean, I think also
22:23just because um, you know, it was the Epstein case was particularly Trump popular with Trump’s base, less so with
22:30the Democratic base. Now, a lot of the influencers in that media circuit are either being like, “Yes, it was a hoax.”
22:36or are you know have moved on to other things because the trail has gone dead. Like
22:41what else can I mean we can keep asking questions. I don’t know what you mean by by trail going dead. I mean I think it’s pretty
22:47clear that the administration does not plan to release further documents and and they’ve said that. Um and I guess uh
22:54there’s this planned congressional hearing where they’ve subpoenaed the Clintons and some other things uh some
23:01other people, but I anticipate that it will be a pretty controlled uh hearing. I don’t think you’re going to hear any
23:06questions about Mark Middleton or China Gate uh there or what Epstein was doing the 17 times he went to the White House.
23:14It’s all going to be about everything that happened after Clinton was no longer president, which is if you look at how the Epstein uh case has been
23:21treated with respect to Bill Clinton for years now. It only focuses on Clinton
23:26after he left office. It’s the same for Bill Gates, too. They only focus on the Gates Epstein relationship after Click
23:33Gates was no longer chairman of Microsoft. So it’s it’s plan controlled a trickle
23:39of information feeding scraps to us. Yeah. I mean it’s like it’s it’s defining the the spectrum of what’s
23:46allow what’s interest. It’s a limited hangout. So it’s like a they find some you know tidbits that are interesting
23:51within a spectrum and people are so uh entranced by what’s in that spectrum
23:57they don’t look for anything beyond that they just assume that’s all there is because if we know everything it opens
The Global Metacartel
24:03up everything it’s Pandora’s box. Well it is a Pandora’s box in a way. Yeah. Sure. Because basically if you go,
24:10you know, as my books show, um if you go as deep as as I went in writing those two books, and you could certainly go
24:16deeper, um it basically shows that yeah, uh we’re the world is basically run by a
24:22meta cartel. [Laughter] Um explain that.
24:27Well, you know, it I would argue, yeah, it is a cartel. It basically operates with an impunity. um and they have uh
24:36they have no accountability for all of their crimes even when they’re exposed here here and there. Some people just
24:42are protected and above the law um almost inexplicably and you know as I
24:47point out in my book it um it’s a lot of the same actors over and over again the same institutions and you can see when
24:54one institution uh crumbles another one pops up in its place. So, as an example,
24:59in the book, I talk a lot about the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, BCCI, uh, that implodes in 1991. It’s
25:06covered up by William Bar when he was attorney general, who covered up Iran Contra, the promise software scandal,
25:12um, and BCCI all as being uh, attorney general and later would return to kind
25:18of do that and for Trump won when he was um, you know, attorney general again. But after BCCI implodes, a lot of their
25:25portfolio of, you know, organized crime and and shady interest goes to the banking, the banks of uh that are sort
25:32of uh related to this guy named Edmund Saffra. And Edmund Saffra dies in his
25:38home uh supposedly from the story is very bizarre, but from arson allegedly
25:44set by his American nurse because she wanted to set a fire and then save him from it, but then didn’t save him from
25:50it. Yeah, it it’s fine. Anyway, he was uh very good friends with uh Robert
25:56Maxwell and a lot of these figures that pop up all all over the place in the Epstein case and then uh who absorbs his
26:03banks? Uh HSBC, they basically take those over and then HSBC gets exposed. Um I forget I think
26:09the one of the it wasn’t the Panama Papers, but it was like one of those uh consortium of journalists that published
26:16these leaks. basically revealed a lot of prominent people that were part of these HSBC Swiss accounts that had been
26:22inherited from Saffra. Um Epstein was one of them. Uh some associates of
26:28Epstein like Flavio Briator are there. Um but also you know HSBC was laundering
26:33money for drug cartels. And who didn’t go after them when they were in charge of the Bank of England? Mark Carney who
26:40is now prime minister of Canada and everyone’s leaving. and why he was head of the Bank of England. You know, there’s pictures of him hanging out with
26:45Galain. Um, so whose, you know, father Robert Maxwell was banked by Saffra
26:51among other things. So, well, I remember him from my childhood because he was a prominent figure in the
BCCI & HSBC Cover-Ups
26:57UK owning course mirror group and waking up one day and his his body is found in
27:02the ocean. Another suspicious death. Yeah. Um, Delane thinks it was rogue
27:07MSAD agents and Sicilian mafia hitman that killed him together. working together. It’s kind of
27:13funny because that’s kind of the thesis of of my book. It’s like uh the National Crime Syndicate, which was uh the
27:20Italian mafia, their New York branch and later their head got deported uh to Italy and sort of set up shop there. Um
27:27and then the Jewish mob that was uh headed by Mayor Lansky and that basically this crime syndicate is the
27:33crime syndicate that teamed up with um you know intelligence agencies because
27:39this you know this operation underworld all of that the formation of this nexus predates the founding of the state of
27:44Israel and so a lot of these actors and I note this in my book too were involved with the arming of the hagan and these
27:50paramilitary groups that later create Israel in 1948 and then help them set up their intelligence agencies.
27:56So that’s sort of how you get all this overlap between, you know, MSAD, Britain, CIA. It goes back to, you know,
28:03the beginning of Israel’s national security complex. Really? I have this picture in my head of like a huge wall of pinballs with bits of
Mossad, MI6, CIA Power Web
28:10string tying things together. But I think it all exists in your head. How do you It doesn’t all exist in my I mean, I
28:17have to put it on paper and plan it out, too. I don’t do the stereotypical conspiratorial pin board thing. That’s
28:24like the always sunny in Philadelphia meme. Like um I don’t do that. But I I I mean some
28:30of it does require mapping out because I mean think about how these people operate. These people could not have
28:36gotten away with all of this if it wasn’t for uh mazes of holding companies, shell companies, Byzantine
28:43offshore banks, and I mean all the other things that enable financial criminality in today’s world. So obviously the
28:50connections are similarly going to be labyrinthian and and Byzantine but they they are there.
28:56Okay. But how do you how do you make sense of it all because it is a large complex network of people, institutions,
29:04uh politicians, billionaires. How did so many people get away? I feel like I I pretty convincingly show
29:11in my book that there’s a lot of baton passing going on between the generations. So like my book starts in the ‘ 40s and I follow a lot of these
29:18institutions and people through the years. Um so you know I I talk a lot
29:23about how a figure named Roy Conn who was Donald Trump’s mentor and how he passed a lot of things on to Trump. Um
29:30how a lot of people that were in Con’s network got involved with Robert Maxwell. Robert Maxwell hired them when
29:35he came to the US, including figures like Robert Keith Gray that were uh PR executives on their face, but also tied
29:41to the CIA, involved in sex blackmail, close friends with William Casey, who was CIA director under Reagan, among
29:47other things. Um, and how they, you know, got involved with Maxwell’s entry
29:52into New York City, uh, which is how, you know, mainly how Galain got so imshed in New York society and also, you
29:59know, teamed up with Abstein in that same period of time. So, you know, all of this
30:04matters and these connections are significant because uh this baton
30:10passing shows that this is a generational thing and and in the case of Maxwell, you know, Robert Maxwell’s children, at least the ones that were
30:16close to him, because you have two that sort of splintered off from the larger Maxwell clan, um
30:22but are very open that, you know, after he died, they were trying to figure out how to rebuild his empire
30:28and using his rolodex of context contacts to rebuild that and they did in doing so, you know, uh you have Ian and
30:35Kevin doing all this uh interesting financial stuff after um you know, their
30:41father’s death and then the the twins Isabelle and Christine make this search engine uh company and get involved with
30:46Microsoft and Bill Gates and all this stuff back in the back in the ‘9s and Galain Maxwell was reportedly involved
30:52in that too and then also very involved with Epstein and all sorts of other things and eventually becomes one of the
30:58main people at the UN uh developing sustainable development policy for the world’s oceans.
31:04[Music] The humble bee, a keystone species
31:11crucial to the survival of Earth’s inhabitants. Here’s how things would look if bees
31:19vanished. And here’s how they’d look if humans vanished.
31:27But imagine if instead we became a keystone species by doing things the
31:34right way, by taking responsibility for our actions and becoming the solution.
31:41Iron Mines, the world’s most responsible currency the right way
31:49because the future depends on it.
32:00H how do you get in this gang? Like h how does that happen? And and how how do
32:06people know they can start acting with our community? So the best analogy I’ve heard for that
32:12is actually from the journalist Nick Bryant, who’s the guy that published Epstein’s black book with Gawker in the flight logs among um other things. And
32:19he also wrote an amazing book on the Franklin scandal, which is about this extremely insane uh sexual blackmail and
32:26sex trafficking pedophilia network really that was active in DC um in the 1980s during the during the Reagan era.
32:33Um and he basically had someone explain it to him. I forget who his source was, but it was basically um you know,
32:40imagine it like you’re on a yacht and you know, you’re invited on this yacht and then you can do whatever you want
32:47while you’re on the yacht, but you try and get off and you’ll drown or they won’t let you get off. You know, you’ll
32:52be popped off if you try and leave. So, as long as you’re like in the club operating within the club’s rules, you
32:58can act with impunity, but there’s certain things you can’t do in order to enjoy that impunity.
33:05So, is it is it un is it like a set of unsaid rules? You you you with us?
33:11I would not know. Yeah. But what’s your suspicion? Because like I’m trying to understand how you
33:16once you’re in this thing, you you start to feel like, okay, I can start
33:21trafficking weapons. I can start trafficking women, young kids. I can start doing
33:28financial deals. Like, how do you know you’re in that club and you can get away with it? Um I’m not really sure but
Bear Stearns to Blackmail
33:34let’s take the case of Epstein for example. So it seems like Epstein’s mentors in this world were uh a British
33:40arms dealer named Douglas Lease and a friend of Leases named Adnam Kosigible
33:46who is a very infamous weapons dealer uh with ties to the Saudis uh the UK uh
33:53American intelligence, Israeli intelligence. No, that’s Jamal Kosigible. That’s his nephew I believe.
33:59Yeah. Um and um Edna Kosigible as an example um
34:05you know he was known for a lot of financial crime. He had a interesting appearance in the savings and loans
34:11crisis of the 1980s. For example, he banked with BCCI. Um he was a major arms
34:16dealer. Um and also he um would basically have he had a yacht. He would
34:23bring uh powerful clients, which of course include politicians, they include diplomats, they include businessmen,
34:29powerful people in general, onto his yacht and there would be young women there to entice them. Uh and people have
34:36alleged uh including a head of a call girl ring active in Europe during the time that she said she was part of it.
34:42Um you know, a sexual blackmail operation to get to for its business,
34:48right? And um you know ultimately if you’re someone like Jeffrey Epstein
34:53operating in in that and you see that Adnan Kosogi can do that and it’s it’s business for him and you have no moral
34:58scruples you know why wouldn’t you especially if you’re operating you know
35:04with intelligence services which benefit you some sort of state protection.
35:10Um John Kuryaku who’s a former CIA analyst um has talked about how you know
35:15in the CIA in particular you want to cultivate a source because you need their intelligence you need their information uh you know it’s essentially
35:23agency policy to give them anything they ask for in order to secure access to that information and that intelligence
35:30even if it’s kids it’s [ __ ] and it’s even beyond just the agency. So
35:37BCCI, this bank, right, um this the US Senate report on it basically says, I
35:43mean, not not basically, it absolutely says that they also engaged in sex trafficking of minors to elite members
35:50of the bank. So intelligence agencies are trafficking children.
Intel, Crime & Trafficking
35:56Well, what’s intelligence? It’s information. Sure. Yeah. So any sort of access to
36:02information that you can use to your benefit, they want to secure that to get an edge over their competing
36:07intelligence agencies and they will justify anything in the name of securing
36:13that intelligence. That’s what Operation Underworld was about. We need intelligence from the mob. So we have to
36:18team up with the mob even though it’s bad to team up with organized crime. But then they become organized crime,
36:26right? But it’s all organized crime. That’s what I’m saying. It’s all organized.
36:31From that point, it became organized crime. Well, even before Operation Underworld, this same national crime
36:36syndicate like in New York had taken over the Democratic Party because they took over the unions. And so, you know,
36:43after and they they, you know, threatened a few people’s lives, but a key people here and there and then they they controlled New York’s Democratic
36:50party and then expand and basically take over uh take it over in, you know, other
36:56metropolises in the in the US and bam, it’s it’s done. And then they do the same thing with the Republicans.
37:01So, organized crime hasn’t gone away. It’s just rebranded. Yeah. In the shape. It’s rebranded. They’re philanthropists
37:06now. Well, like look at Leslie Wexner. Yeah, of course. Leslie Wchner is a
37:12great example of that. He’s a weird guy. Uh that’s one way to put it. Um yeah, so in
37:20the interest of of just keeping this on the organized crime thing, uh Leslie Wexner, um his tax attorney got shot in
37:27the face in broad daylight a few days before he was supposed to testify to the IRS. Um, and Columbus, Ohio police
37:34obviously investigated this murder and produced this document uh that talks
37:39extensively about Leslie Wexner and his ties to organized crime interests. And that was destroyed by the police,
37:46supposedly destroyed by the Columbus Chief of Police, but this uh local journalist and attorney named Bob Fraus
37:52uh obtained it accidentally through a Freedom of Information Act request and then when confronted with it, that
37:57police chief was like, “Oh, I thought I destroyed it. How’d you get it?” You know, tried openly admitted to try and
38:03cover it up. But I mean, uh, Wexner for his like estates like hires people from
38:08Columbus PD or at least has did during that time to be his like private security at his developments like New
38:14Albany and places like that. So, and he’s the most powerful man in Ohio, richest man in Ohio by far. So, um, I
38:22mean, you want to be somebody in Ohio politics, you have to go through Wexner. I mean, even JD Vance had a fundraiser
38:27at his house. I didn’t know that. Mhm. Well, it was in the beginning of his career and before the team up with
38:33Peter Teal. You’re not a fan of Peter Teal, are you? No, I’m not. One of the few in
Thiel, Palantir & Surveillance
38:39independent media that does not like him. Uh, we can get into that later.
38:45Can we get into that now? Uh, sure if you want. Yeah. Wh why? I mean, look, I can
38:51probably guess. Yeah. Well, there’s a lot of reasons. Um, but I guess let’s start off here.
38:58So, um I would argue that um neoconservatives have very successfully
39:05rebranded and I think uh Peter Teal is a very important example of that. Um so
39:12Peter Teal um as an example, Palunteer has been in the news, right? He’s a co-founder of that. So how was Palunteer
39:19created? Well, there was this company that was being run, not company, sorry. It was a government um program after 911
39:27called Total Information Awareness. It was housed within the Pentagon’s DARPA office. And the man they chose to put in
39:34charge of that was John Po Dexter, who was the highest ranking member of the Reagan administration to be indicted for
39:40his role in Iran Contra. Um which again, the continuity of government stuff is is relevant here. So um eventually uh you
39:49know it launches and whatever but uh people in are outraged by it because as they rightly point out as they rightly
39:56pointed out um it would uh eliminate constitutional protections of Americans
40:01rights specifically the right to privacy among other things. It was a huge surveillance drag net and its goal
40:07wasn’t just to um you know surveil everything. It was to um predict crime
40:13before it happens, predict terror attacks before it happens. I mean, it’s like minority report was basically the
40:19end goal of it. Um and so after all the push back, they changed the name to terrorist information awareness and try
40:26and rebrand. Oh, it’s not total. We’re not going to we are still going to surveil innocent Americans, but we’re
40:31focusing on the terrorists. You know, they did all this stuff to try and rebrand it. uh but Congress defunded it.
40:36But in hidden in that bill, Congress allowed aspects of it to continue. Um and essentially um I argue in in my work
40:45on Palunteer that an effort was made to privatize large aspects of TIA as
40:50Palunteer because when Alex Karp and and Peter Teal were setting it up, they went
40:56to John Po Dexter through this guy named Richard Pearl uh who is a a ne long-standing neocon actor with very
41:03extensive ties also to the state of Israel. He was like caught in the 70s giving classified information to
41:08Israel’s embassy and should have gone to jail and somehow did not. Um, and had a lot of ties also to Netanyahu’s first
41:15government. And he Richard Pearl is the guy that connected uh Teal Karp to Po
41:20Dexter and they wanted they basically wanted to talk to Po Dexter because they wanted to recreate total information
41:26awareness and saw him as the godfather of modern mass surveillance.
41:31And um in doing so uh they basically uh you know Peter Teal teams up with InQel,
41:37the CIA’s venture capital firm. Uh Alex Karp has said on record that the intended clients of Palunteer from the
41:44beginning was the CIA. And you know uh the CIA was their first client for their first six years as a company. Uh their
41:50top developers went to Langley, Virginia, which is CIA headquarters every two weeks to show that show the
41:56CIA their project uh their product and have them tweak it to their liking. And during that period of time, uh, one of
42:02the pe top people at the CIA that would have been involved in that is this guy named Alan Wade, uh, who was also
42:08intimately involved with total information awareness. And if you look at how total information awareness was
42:13described, it’s privacy protections. It’s exactly the same as the way Palanteer sold their stuff uh, later on.
42:20So there’s an insane amount of overlap. And what’s crazy here is that Alan Wade a few years prior had created um a
42:28homeland security software program that was also pre-rimeesque and similar to
42:34what Palanteer ended up doing. It was called Kilad and he teamed up with Christine Maxwell to do that.
42:41Mhm. I wonder what the uh Whitney web file in Palunteer is like. Oh, I’m sure it’s it’s long.
42:49It’s got a note. They probably know I have a mold allergy and all sorts of stuff and that I’m visiting you having a
42:56conversation. Well, I mean that’s their job, right? Well, it’s funny. So, let me tell
43:01but it’s it’s about pre-rime. It’s about predicting stuff before it happens. And that’s what I think a lot of people miss
43:07about Palunteer. Um because a lot of people say about mass surveillance, you know, well, I have nothing to hide,
43:13you know, but it’s not about if you’re doing something wrong now or not. It’s about an algorithm thinking if you will
43:21do something wrong in the future. I think I would definitely be on that algorithm. I think you would be as well.
43:27Well, the problem is is that uh pre-rime has been inching along and actually a lot of people in Epstein world I mean
43:34obviously Peter Teal and Epste had a relationship. Moore came out out about this um uh earlier this year uh after
43:40you know Teal kind of tried to minimize his ties a few months earlier. Um uh but
43:46um Peter Teal’s Founders Fund co-invested in this company uh with Epstein and Wexner and Ahood Barack
43:55called Carbine that basically had a pre-time component to it. And Carbine has now uh colonized an insane amount of
44:04uh 911 emergency call services systems like throughout the US and are the uh
44:09main company at the forefront if this legislation in the US is passed. what’s called next generation or NG 911 where
44:15they’re going to basically federalize and centralize all 911 emergency call systems and then when you centralize it
44:21you can just put one company in charge. They’ve changed the board a lot since the Epstein scandal because Ahood Barack
44:27was the chair and there were people on the board that were tied to Epstein, including a woman that he allegedly took
44:32to uh the UK to sort of uh soften up some US senators whose uh identity is
44:40still unknown uh before the Iraq war vote, but it’s story for another time.
44:45And uh you know, some other figures tied to Epste were on the board and it would formerly been created by veterans of
44:51Israeli intelligence. Uh but now they only have one of the Israeli intelligence co-founders on the board.
44:56The the others have left to do other things. One of them now works for Eric Prince I believe. Um and you know
45:01they’ve kind of gone their their separate ways and they’ve tried to rebrand as a more American looking
45:08company I guess. Uh like they I think they added uh Trump’s uh former head of DHS Christy Neielen I think is her name
45:16uh to the to the board. and they have Michael Cherto, the former first, one of the early heads of DHS under Bush. Um,
45:24so there so it’s like it’s so everything and everyone is captured
45:29and everything is corrupt. I mean, are there really I think that’s kind of a simplification.
45:34I think not everything has always been like that. I think this particular group
45:39um once they got their hands on power, it’s a faction. Um, you know, they’ve been consolidating control for a long
45:46time. And I think the advent of technology, big tech sort of taking over our lives has really facilitated that
45:52because as I my the whole conclusion to my book is that why would you take someone like Epstein down? You don’t
45:58need people like him anymore to compromise people because all of our
46:03lives are increasingly online. So if they want something on you, they can just harvest it off through, you know,
46:10whether it’s, you know, Palunteer, uh, you know, it ends up in your Palanteer database. basically it’s sucked up by
46:15the NSA or GCHQ or any of these other agencies um and and you’re profiled um
46:20based on it or if there isn’t incriminating stuff they can plant incriminating stuff on your devices.
46:26So you’re screwed either way if they want to screw you. I mean sure. Yeah. Um and so it’s much easier to
46:33consolidate power under those circumstances. Do do you think they’re and they elevate people who are
46:38compromised to positions of power? How did a guy like Dennis Hastard become speaker of the house of the United
46:45States when it was known that he was a pedophile years before getting to that position?
Why Epstein Was Taken Down
46:54Cuz they can hold it over his head the whole time.
46:59Um, do you think there are there are a lot of Epstein operated? Well, yeah. I my whole book is about how
47:06Epstein was not an anomaly. You know, I mentioned the example of Adnan Kosigible, but then, you know, I mentioned Robert Keith Gray, who Robert
47:12Maxwell hired, uh, when he came, you know, to the US, uh, and made his big entry into New York City. He was also
47:18involved in uh, sex blackmail stuff. There was a Page Boy scandal he was related to in the 1980s, um, where uh,
47:26oh, I forget the the guy’s name. I think Larry Craig was the name of the main congressman or senator involved. Um, and
47:33Craig denied all the charges, but then got caught in uh, the early 2000s for soliciting, you know, sex in a bathroom
47:40in an airport or something like that. Um, but yeah, there’s been a ton of these scandals over the years. And then
47:45you have figures like Roy Conn, who I mentioned earlier, involved in in in sex blackmail activities as well. There’s a
47:52lot of these figures. Sex blackmail seems to become very useful. Well, it is because I mean, this is one
47:58of those things that’s a holdover from the mob that later gets absorbed by intelligence agencies because they see its utility,
48:05you know. So if we see someone rich famous knowing who you know knowing information
48:12the sexual blackmail information it int the CIA that’s intelligence to them. We
48:18want to gather intelligence on these people and then use it to our benefit for national security interests
48:26which is all economic well more often than not but it’s uh you
48:31know it’s obviously other things too. Um,
48:37just I think it depends on the circumstance really.
48:42It’s it’s it’s so hard to get your head around it, Whitney. Well, you know, I I’ve thought about I
48:48understand that my books are like a lot of information. Um, but the thing is we’re never going to get an affidavit
48:54from the CIA being like, “Yes, we did bad things.” Like, we’ve known they’ve done bad things in various decades. It’s been
49:01very documented and they won’t admit to bad things there in almost every one of
49:06those cases. So, it’s like you’re not going to get that about Epstein or about anybody else, you know.
Epstein at the White House
49:13Well, so why do you think Epstein became almost like the I don’t know the central figure for all of this corrupt global
49:21elite metacosm? Well, he’s just a microcosm of it really. But I think um
49:27is it his own? He he became too exposed I think um especially after his first
49:32arrest and as he described that he became radioactive but he had you know before been able to
49:39move through all these different circles um you know with impunity and was a a
49:45wellrespected guy in these elite circles right he was useful to a lot of people mainly for money things but also for you
49:52know other moral legal things from you know what we know about the case as as it’s
49:58developed. So, I think since then, um I don’t know, he tried to rebrand as
50:05like a a tech entrepreneur and all this stuff, but he was allegedly still cultivating important relationships. He
50:11was uh reportedly advising Tesla on how to take Tesla private. Um he he claimed
50:17to be advising Treasury on their uh the Department of Treasury on cryptocurrency and anti-hacking efforts. um all sorts
50:24of um he was still doing a lot of stuff uh between those arrests. It’s just you
50:29know the public association was um you know no longer beneficial for a lot of
50:35powerful people. But he was considered financially illiterate. By who? Well, I think Eric Weinstein came out
50:41and said he’s he’s a [ __ ] Yeah. Mhm. That’s interesting. Doesn’t
50:46he work for Deal Capital? Hm. Well, um, Eric, you know, I’m not super
50:53familiar with Eric Weinstein’s Epstein story, but as I understand it, he talks a lot more about his impressions of
50:58Epstein at the meeting as opposed to why why he why he was going there. And I believe he ran a hedge fund at the time.
51:05So, why would you be going to Epstein as a hedge fund guy? I don’t know. Well, it seems like everybody met with
51:11Epstein at one time. Yeah, for financial stuff. But I do not believe that he was financially
51:16illiterate. H he was very successful. He would not have been tapped in the 80s by people
51:22like Adnan Kosigible and Douglas Lease if he was not savvy. He helped orchestrate one of the largest Ponzi
51:28schemes in US industry history at Towers Financial. Uh but his name got dropped
51:34from the case like 3 months in. So I mean how do you
51:40do that by being financially illiterate? Well, didn’t Why would Leslie Wexner give you power
51:46of attorney over all of his affairs? Well, that is also very weird, though. But would he do that for someone who’s
51:52financially illiterate? Because Epstein had several years between 1987 or 1985,
51:58depending on who you believe when the introduction was made, but but why give it to him anyway?
52:04Well, obviously Wexner liked Epstein very much. I think there’s no uh questions there. So, there’s this murder
52:11of of Wexner’s uh tax attorney. Yeah. Um and then not long after that, Epstein
52:16comes into Wexner’s world and untangles his tang tangled finances, whatever that
52:21means. Um and Epstein during that time, you know, before then, between 1981 and
52:271985, uh described himself as a financial bounty hunter. He was hired to find
52:33money that had been stolen, and he hid away stolen money for powerful people. He played both sides and someone who can
52:40effectively do that. He was hired by like very fancy like aristocratic people
52:47for those purposes. Admittedly, like a very aristocratic Spanish family, uh, being one of them, they would not just
52:54hire some financially illiterate idiot to do that kind of stuff for them. And
52:59Edn Kosigible was one of his clients, too. He’s not gonna hire in a financially illiterate guy to do that. I
53:05think that is it’s it’s it’s bull and it’s part of this narrative that’s been woven about Epstein about how he was
53:11just charismatic and him being good at anything else was just a facade because well yeah because by that
53:18narrative inherently means don’t look any deeper into what Epstein was doing uh you know in his early history for
53:26example well let’s talk about that sure is this the
53:32arms trafficking uh Yeah, among other things. So, okay, can we go so can we go back
Arms Dealing & Epstein’s Rise
53:38further just for people who don’t understand h how did he become a thing because wasn’t he
53:44no one really knows but it all seems to have started with this backtrack uh backpacking trip to Europe in 1971
53:51and this was when he was a college dropout I think he went to uh Cooper
53:58Union I think for a few years didn’t finish um and then was started at NYU in
54:041971 in through 74 but didn’t get a degree something like that. Um and
54:10somewhere in 19 1971 he went backpacking to Europe and he was in the UK and so in
54:16the UK he became close friends with uh this famous uh chist uh Jacqueline Dupri
54:24um and reportedly he claimed through her uh develop like got sort of an in with
54:29the royal family at that point. Uh, I don’t really know if that’s true, but he comes back from
54:36that backpacking trip and he’s hanging out at Jimmy Goldsmith’s house. And Jimmy Goldsmith is an interesting
54:42figure. If you are a fan of Adam Curtis documentaries, you may uh remember him
54:47from the Mayfair set. Uh, he is uh a currency speculator or was he was very
54:53close to uh Robert Maxwell among other figures. He was a member of this very interesting nexus um in uh Mayfair uh
55:02called the Claremont Club, which was sort of this elite gambling club uh that a lot of interesting figures uh
55:09interesting figures were tied to, including figures with intelligence links, organized crime links, and sex
55:14blackmail links. So, for example, if you’re familiar with the Proffumo affair in UK politics, uh the nexus responsible
55:22for that, which brought down the government of Harold McMillan, uh has its nexus at the Claremont Club. Um and
55:28Jimmy Goldmith uh was a member of that along with people that were also very close to Robert Maxwell like uh Roland
55:35Roland or Tiny Roland as he’s uh as he’s remembered. And another uh well-known
55:40member is uh David Sterling who basically started a lot of this uh movement, the private mercenary
55:46phenomena in in Britain um among other things. So um definitely a network of
55:53powerful people and a lot of uh his early uh Epstein’s early high society
55:58New York contacts uh his earliest ones a lot of them met him at Jimmy Goldmith’s mansion in New York. How were they
56:05connected? So he So okay, so originally he’s networking.
Maxwell’s US Intelligence Entry
56:12Yeah, but he’s a college dropout. Something happens when he goes to Britain. We don’t really know, but he
56:17gets connected with this crowd. Do you have a suspicion? Um it may have been through his daughter, uh Isabelle Goldsmith. She’s
56:25in the black book. It’s But I I mean it’s hard it’s hard to know. Also, Jacqueline Depri um was uh reportedly uh
56:34cultivated ties with sort of the New York Jewish community uh because she converted to Judaism in 1967. She was
56:41married um I think to an Israeli musician, but she became close to she was close also to Pearlman uh who’s a
56:48famous um New York musician. I think he’s a violin. I can’t remember exactly what instruments he plays. Sorry. Um but
56:55he um and and Epstein had a pretty significant relationship also.
57:01But it’s important to point out when I say Epste had a relationship with people, I’m not saying he they had a sex blackmail relationship necessarily. What
57:08we’re trying to untangle here is the truth of who Epstein was and why was he taken down. Because I don’t think he was
57:15taken down because in 2019 all of a sudden uh the US government became outraged about uh the sweetheart deal of
57:222007, you know, 12 years after the fact and then wanted to rectify some wrong.
57:28Um I think it was about something else. He pissed off somebody or uh you know
57:33something similar that befell Robert Maxwell for example. Um, but anyway,
57:39stop becoming useful. Too much heat, something. Uh, I have some theories. We
57:44can get to those later. But, uh, going back to early Epstein, um, yeah, so he’s in this network with, uh, Jimmy
57:50Goldmith, and he gets hired in 1974, um, which is, uh, the year he stops,
57:56also the year he stops going to university for any any reason. Um, and gets hired at the Dalton School, which
58:02is this elite New York, uh, private school. and uh he’s hired uh by um
58:09Donald Bar who’s William Bar’s father. Donald Bar had worked at the OSS and which is the precursor to the CIA and
58:15then after that had been involved in all of these programs to identify uh gifted children um when they were um you know
58:23high schoolers and things like that and Epste would have fallen in that category. We don’t know if there was a connection there but Epstein graduated
58:29high school like two years early. He was a a math wiz and also got a um
58:34scholarship to go to interlockan where he would later return to offend actually uh which is this kind of elite uh music
58:42school for really talented kids. Um and he I I think he went there because he
58:47was good at the bassoon or something but he was apparently a ma really good at at math and uh could play a lot of
58:53different instruments and was u you know reportedly very talented and he
58:58obviously caught people’s attention for some reason. Um, you know, was it Bear Sterns from there?
59:04It was Bear Sterns from there. So, it depends on who you believe about uh who
59:09hired him, but it was Ace Greenberg at the end of the day who became CEO or the head of Bear Sterns, I think, in 1978.
59:16Um, but you know, there’s a lot of people there’s a lot of baton passing
59:21here for responsibility. Um, and I think that’s kind of common now that Epstein is kind of an an infamous character,
59:28right? Yeah. Um, so the sister, um, or sorry, his allegedly it was the daughter of Ace
59:36Greenberg. She denies it. Um, it was, uh, she says it was some, uh, kid at
59:42school. Uh, one of her friends at or no, another kid at school. Her their dad was
59:47friendly with Greenberg and recommended Epstein to Greenberg. I don’t know. There’s all these different stories, but
59:52there’s an agreement that it was Greenberg that brought him to Beer Sterns. Okay. It’s well it’s it’s a little
1:00:00complicated. Sorry. But basically, you know, he joins Epste joins uh Bear Sterns in 76 and by 1980 he’s like a
1:00:07limited partner. He has a very meteoric rise at the firm. Oh yeah,
1:00:12he was basically Greenberg’s protege and then he leaves in 1981. Um there’s a lot
1:00:18of again a lot of different stories there. Um but it seems like the most
1:00:23likely explanation is that there was this SEC investigation because the trade at the center of that investigation
Israel’s Spy Empire
1:00:30happens the day before um Epstein resigns Bear Sterns and the official story that he had been fined uh for not
1:00:38reporting some uh something in the expense account appropriately. um it doesn’t really make sense with why he
1:00:44would like leave um a a job as a limited partner netting him a lot of money for a
1:00:49fine that was relatively small. It just and and then you have other Bear Sterns executives and Epstein himself say oh I
1:00:56wanted to strike out on my own and make my own business at that point. Um there again a lot of conflicting information
1:01:02but the SEC case revolves around the Bronman family um insider trading involving serums um and a lot of other
1:01:10people that are sort of in this network. Uh one of the guys involved in that insider trading scandal uh later becomes
1:01:15a big part of Jimmy Goldmith’s corporate rating in the US and his acquisition of this company called Crown Zelerback. Um
1:01:22and which is part of this well I don’t want to get I don’t want to throw out too many names that confuses people. Um,
1:01:29but the Drexel Burnham Lambert, they’re like the heart of a lot of the savings and loans and junk bond scandal
1:01:35financial funny business going on in the in the 80s and Epste has a lot of ties to those that crowd. Um, and so um,
1:01:44Epstein appears to have been advised to have to leave Bear Sterns because of that investigation. I argue in the book
1:01:51it was probably to take heat off of Ace Greenberg who had become CEO at that point. um Epstein was his protege and
1:01:58having him sort of go and take the fall for it made it a lot um made it a lot easier um for for them. But what’s
1:02:06interesting about this too is that the lawyer uh for Bear Sterns up until a few weeks prior had been Bill Casey who had
1:02:13just been tapped as Reagan’s CIA director. So whoever Bill Casey left his whole legal portfolio to of all his long
1:02:19longtime legal clients would have been the person to make that call. And then after he leaves, he, you know, becomes
1:02:25involved in this financial bounty hunting where he’s um hiding and finding money for powerful people in, you know,
1:02:32offshore shadow bank world. And 1981 is also where um Casey uh brings in
1:02:39Kosigible for Iran Contra related purposes and all of that. And Kosogi becomes Epstein’s client. Um all sorts
1:02:46of things start to kick off. The same names keep coming up over and over again. And sometimes not even just
1:02:52it’s like a it’s the family. Well, like I was saying earlier, we’re not going to get a signed affidavit from like the CIA or, you know, any
1:02:59intelligence agency talking about Epstein, uh, including Israel’s. So, um,
1:03:04what are we left with? Well, we have to look at what is ultimately, you know, I guess circumstantial evidence, but you
1:03:10stack enough of it over the decades, you know, you can show that something shady
1:03:15is definitely going on. And that’s the reason my books are are long and so detail oriented is because that’s all we
1:03:21really have in in terms of open source intelligence to put all of this together, right? And so that’s, you
1:03:28know, that’s what I tried to do. [Music]
1:03:49It’s very important that you don’t lose this. Okay. This is your inheritance through Bitcoin.
1:03:58A let Bitcoin rip. Don’t rip up your Bitcoin. Set up inheritance with Casa.
1:04:04Okay. So, after Bear Sterns, he goes out on his own. At what point does he become connected to Moset? Um, so it’s
Epstein, Mossad, Global Intel
1:04:11allegedly somewhere in the span of 1983 and 1985. So it’s not long after. Not long after. No, but remember, you
1:04:18know, his mentors in the shady world of arms trafficking and all of that are Douglas Lee and uh Adnan Kosigible and
1:04:25they team up around this time and Kosigible in particular has relationships with Israeli intelligence.
1:04:31But uh it was actually a person who was known to have been working with Robert Maxwell and Israeli intelligence stuff
1:04:36Arib Manasha uh that said that uh he uh Epstein was brought before him by
1:04:42Maxwell and Maxwell wanted uh him included in the stuff that they were doing for Israel that stuff being uh you
1:04:49know arms transfers. Uh what the other uh guy in the group was Nick Davies who
1:04:54was the foreign editor for one of the publications that um Maxwell owned at the time. What year did Maxwell die? Was
1:05:01it 86? 91. Was it 91? Mhm. Okay. Okay. Because he feels like a
1:05:06successor to Maxwell in a lot of ways. Yeah. So, Maxwell was uh I think he’s misunderstood because a
1:05:13lot of him think of him as just a fraud and a grifter. Uh and obviously he was those things. He did engaged in a lot of
1:05:20illegal financial stuff. And the reason it wasn’t Well, the reason it wasn’t exposed sooner is because he was very
1:05:25adept at keeping things afloat when they were insolvent. Right. Yeah. Moving money from here to there around.
1:05:32And I don’t think his kids uh you know Evan and Keenan and Evan could keep up with that or do it the way he could do
1:05:38it. But Epstein definitely was uh capable I think. Um but Robert Maxwell
1:05:44was one of a series of deaths in 1991 that are tied to these intermix scandals
1:05:49with Iran Contra. one being Promise in which Maxwell was also involved and the other one being BCCI that we’ve um
1:05:57brought up a few times. Um yeah, I’m not sure where you want to go from here. Well, so so so I kind of want to
1:06:04understand what Epstein was doing in that period then in the late 80s early 90s because obviously most of us aren’t
1:06:11aware of him until there’s a lot of overstacking things. He’s involved in a lot of pies. So his
1:06:16earliest stuff um with arms trafficking was with lease and apparently Koshogi and Lease had gone into this joint
1:06:23venture with Chinese weapons manufacturers mainly the company Nurenco um and they were sending a lot of
1:06:29weapons to Iran. So it was a parallel arms trafficking operation to Iran that was separate but related to Iran Contra.
1:06:36Um and so that seems to be sort of his foray into it. Um and then obviously you
1:06:42know Kosogible is doing Iran Contra. He’s doing stuff in savings and loans and all other all other sorts of arms
1:06:48deals um all over the world. And um Epstein gets involved with Wexner in
1:06:54this period. He gets involved with Steve Hoffenberg and the Tower Financial Ponzi in this period. Um and he’s doing this
1:07:00financial bounty hunting stuff. Um, and a lot of uh the characters, you know, uh
1:07:06that he gets involved with. Another characters that’s not really talked about a lot is Evangelene Gletus. He ends up sharing an office with her uh
1:07:13for several years. And their attorney uh the Galletus family attorney, Alan
1:07:18Tesler, uh becomes involved with Leslie Wexner in this period. Um and he also uh
1:07:24is involved with the architect of the aforementioned Promise software scandal, Earl, sorry, Earl Brian, uh during this
1:07:32time. And so it all uh all these people start to sort of meld into these same scandals in the 80s and Epstein was
1:07:39absolutely sort of imshed in this in this crowd. Um what do you think the drives
1:07:45is driving him at that time? Is it power and money? Is it just money? Um what drives all
1:07:51I think it’s I I think it depends on what kind of person you are. Um and I think it’s pretty clear that Epstein was
1:07:56pervy. Um and uh when you’re very powerful, you can get away with all
1:08:02sorts of stuff. And um he was obviously sought after for his financial acumen,
1:08:09but I would say, you know, again, it’s offshore banking stuff. It’s shady banking stuff that he was really good
1:08:16at. Um that was actually what he was sort of tapped at uh at at Bear Sterns
1:08:21for. He started uh he he initially started being like an assistant to someone on the floor of the stock
1:08:27exchange and by the end of it was advising their wealthiest clients on matters relating to esoteric markets in
1:08:34the tax code. Uh so money yeah so I I think you know it’s pretty
1:08:40clear he was he was sought after at least by these shady characters um for
1:08:46those purposes. Yeah. When does the So when does the tap on
1:08:51the shoulder from Mosad come? What’s the point where I mean it seems like it’s Robert Maxwell being sort of the earliest but again if
Clinton Foundation & Africa
1:08:58you have um you know lease and and Kosigible in the mix it’s possible it
1:09:03could have come a little sooner. Um but again it’s it’s hard to know hard to know. Um but I mean he had ties.
1:09:12Oh, it’s important to point out that the head of uh Aman, which is the military intelligence directorate of Israel at
1:09:17the time that uh Maxwell sort of pushes out Epstein, um was Ahud Barack. And
1:09:24according to Arben Manasha, Ahud Barack was one of the higherups that Robert Maxwell referenced as having approved
1:09:30Epstein before he introduced him to Epstein. Uh, but supposedly Ahoud Barack says
1:09:37that he didn’t meet Epstein until like the late 90s. But there’s a lot of these cases where people say, “No, I met him
1:09:42way later.” And all of this that have turned out to like not be true. Like Bill Gates, for example, saying it was
1:09:48like 2011 was their first meeting. That was [ __ ] Uh, yeah.
1:09:53Okay. Cuz because we go from him being a guy involved in financial
1:09:58things to maybe some arms deal to to a guy who owns an island and a It’s hard. It’s hard to know how that
How Epstein Gained Influence
1:10:05happened, but I think it’s somewhere in the late 80s because Robert Maxwell in the late ‘ 80s sort of plans his entry
1:10:11into the into New York from the UK. He decides he he’s like not liked very much in the UK at that point and he talks
1:10:18about how when he goes to New York, people like love him and how he thought that was great. But that isn’t like the
1:10:23only reason. Another one of the main motiv motivators here is that he was
1:10:28picked by this uh Wall Street bank uh Rothschild Inc. It was created by the
1:10:34Rothschild family because they felt like they had neglected Wall Street. Okay. Um and wanted to sort of reestablish
1:10:40their dominance in New York finance. That’s how they described it to the New York Times.
1:10:45And so they focused on mergers and acquisitions initially to get their foothold. And so they picked Jimmy
1:10:52Goldmith and Robert Maxwell to be sort of their corporate raiders from their UK
1:10:58banking interests that made the entry for Rothschild Inc. in mergers and acquisitions into the US. And so you
1:11:06have um Jimmy Goldmith do the Crown Zelerbach play that I mentioned earlier and you have uh Maxwell take over
1:11:13McMillan among other things as part of this push um into the US you know financial system
1:11:20basically. So in the same period of time that that’s happening, uh, Robert
1:11:25Maxwell has developed a very close relationship with this mobster uh, named Simeon Mogulich and he’s helped him gain
1:11:32access not only uh, to the US financial system but also the Israeli financial system uh, by getting him a dual citizen
1:11:39passport basically through Israel uh, where Maxwell had a lot of uh, connections and it’s known now thanks to
1:11:46the work of Gordon Thomas that it was very and also Seymour Hirsh that you know it was a very uh close relationship
1:11:53between Maxwell and Israeli intelligence. So he used that to facilitate the entry of this of this
1:11:58mobster um into these different financial systems and Maxwell actually built an alliance uh between people like
1:12:05Mgulvich and organized crime groups uh all over the planet as far as the Japanese yakuza basically. So Maxwell
1:12:12should be known for a lot more than just um stealing the pensions. Stealing pension funds. Yes, he should
1:12:18of course be known for that too because that’s terrible. But uh he should be infamous for a lot more. Um and so he’s
1:12:26uh making his entry into the US for these reasons among other things. And he
1:12:33uh is sort of uh well when he gets there he’s tapped on the shoulder by these people uh that are all close to uh
1:12:39Leslie Wexner. They are members of this group that was established the same year uh 91 that’s called today the mega
1:12:47group. Um it’s Wexner Bronman and this guy lame Lawrence Tish uh the crowns
1:12:53Lester Crown a lot of them have organized crime ties historically that
1:12:58arguably persists to the present. Um and Brothman’s important here too because after BCCI collapse I mentioned earlier
1:13:06admin Edund Saffra sort of seemingly taking over a lot. So um one of those Saffra banks was Bank of New York and
1:13:12Edgar Broman was intimately involved uh in that at the time that it sort of became affiliated with Mgalovich
1:13:18financial interests among other things. Um and Robert Maxwell uh starts having a
1:13:25lot of famous New Yorkers on his yacht on the Lady Galain. Um a lot of whom are
Wexner, Crime & Protection
1:13:30tied to organized crime in some capacity. uh like Steve Ross, the former head of Time Warner, uh who built out
1:13:36the company that would eventually become Time Warner out of an organized crime front company, among other things. Uh
1:13:42you have, you know, uh there’s a picture of him also with a that guy Ross um and
1:13:48and Trump that’s pretty famous now. Um and also in that picture is John Tower who was uh on the Maxwell and also
1:13:55Israeli intelligence payroll uh to facilitate their role in the promise scandal uh in that picture. And uh Trump
1:14:03of course had ties to, you know, through Roy Conn uh to, you know, Roy Conn was a
1:14:08guy that straddled political power in Washington with organized crime. Uh he was a a mob lawyer, but he was also very
1:14:15close to like the Nixon administration and then later the Reagan administration, very close to Bill Casey, um and and all sorts of other
1:14:22actors of relevance here. So this is an incredible swamp that
1:14:28Maxwell is swimming in in this time. But he’s basically sent there for this very powerful banking dynasty. Um but is also
1:14:36sort of fronting for a lot of these, you know, criminal interests. And one of the people he hires uh to help guide his
1:14:43entry into the US because he wanted to gain influence uh with all sorts of powerful politicians and and powerful
1:14:50people. um is Robert Keith Gray who as I mentioned earlier um not only had close
1:14:55ties to Bill Casey, Roy Con, and all of these guys, but was also a known black mailer. So
1:15:02that might be where it started. How do you really want to influence uh politics
1:15:07and powerful figures in New York? Well, you need intelligence. You need intelligence. Yeah,
1:15:12you need someone as a front to help gather that intelligence. Yeah. And Epstein was already well connected uh to all sorts of networks.
1:15:20uh you know kind of like Roy Con straddling both world worlds to an extent. When when you become a Mosad agent,
1:15:27how does that work? What do we know? Like h you become an agent, you become compromised agents,
1:15:34there’s assets, there’s all sorts of uh things you can do for the agency that taps you on the shoulder as it were.
1:15:41But are you tapped on the shoulder with incentives or with threats or can it be both? I’m sure it can be both.
1:15:47And at that time, Epstein was probably incentives. Well, I think he was already imshed in the Maxwell world. And Maxwell again is
1:15:55one of these figures that straddles organized crime and powerful business,
1:16:00powerful banking. Um, and had already been working for Israeli intelligence for some time. And so he maybe introduced Epstein,
Iran-Contra & Mossad Ties
1:16:07said, “He’s one of us. We can trust him.” Oh, I Well, that’s what he did. That’s what you know. Yeah. In the mid 80s,
1:16:12that was already a done deal. But uh Epstein was also involved with US intelligence. Absolutely. But again, the
1:16:19Iran Contra Nexus, which is basically kind of what this is, uh is a melding of US and Israeli intelligence and also
1:16:26figures that are assets for either both agencies or more, you know?
1:16:31I mean, like Robert Maxwell wasn’t just involved with Israeli intelligence. He had involvesment involvement with British
1:16:38intelligence, Russian intelligence. I mean, he was kind of uh, you know,
1:16:43across he had his hand in a lot of pies, we’ll put it that way. And Epste absolutely was a person with their hand in a lot of pies, especially in the
1:16:501980s. It the is the Israeli intelligence and the US intelligence pretty much one of the
1:16:55same? Is it a very good Yeah. So, I’ll give you an example. James Jesus Angleton was one of the first CIA counter intelligence chiefs.
1:17:02There’s a huge statue to him in Tel Aviv thanking him for all he did. Um, and there’s been documents that have come
1:17:07forth since basically showing that he was elevating Israeli interests over American interests, which has happened
1:17:14time and again in US politics. That’s what the neocons are are known for, right?
1:17:19Um, and uh, you have someone like Bill Casey, too, who uh was very close to
1:17:24figures intimately with Israeli intelligence like Bruce Rapaort, for example, one of his best
1:17:30friends. Um and and just you know you have all these people having rather insidious business relationships. Um
1:17:36even why you know Casey’s CIA director. Um and then you have this uh what I
1:17:41mentioned earlier about sort of organized crime being an element here because organized crime is transnational, right? And so this this
1:17:49national crime syndicate that I’ve mentioned a few times is also a transnational thing. So Bruce Rapaort,
1:17:55who you know is an Israeli nominally, um he’d come to visit Bill Casey when he
1:18:00was CIA director. They go golfing together. His chauffeur would be a mob guy, an American mob guy, you know. Uh
1:18:07and there’s a lot of examples of, you know, the this organized crime being all over the place. So some of my more
1:18:13recent work on the broader FC network focuses on on Italy and some of the the people there and they seem to really all
1:18:19come from this nexus that was exposed in the 80s. This P2 lodge or propaganda do it was called uh was a huge huge scandal
1:18:27in Italy. A lot of people uh it involved a lot of politicians uh bankers very
1:18:33powerful people that were basically meeting in secret. Uh it was labeled a subversive organization by the government. It was operating as a
1:18:39Freemason lodge. Um and uh you know was connected to the collapse of several
1:18:45prominent banks. Uh the one of the main guy that was going to uh go to trial for
1:18:51all of this, Michelle Sedona, was under 247 police watch to make sure he wasn’t popped off. They were inspecting his
1:18:57food, everything. And someone slipped cyanide in his coffee and he died.
1:19:03So, um, but anyway, the biggest, uh, the guy that came out of P2 that ended up
1:19:09becoming very powerful and and famous after the scandal is Sylvio Burleskone. Yeah.
1:19:14Yeah. And, uh, even the current government of Italy is very affiliated with Burleskonei. Um, but he
Berlusconi & Bunga Bunga Power
1:19:21he liked his bangabanga parties, didn’t he? Yeah. Well, so when he was prime minister, he um, uh, yeah, had these
1:19:28bungabanga parties as they were called. uh and one of the main uh well she was a
1:19:34teenager at the time 17 she was a focal point of it I think her nickname in the
1:19:39press was Ruby or something it’s remembered as Ruby gate um she uh got caught stealing something um while all
1:19:47of this was going on like a you know theft from a mall or something like that and then when she was being held
1:19:52Burlescone who’s prime minister at the time calls and lies and said it was uh the prime minister of Egypt’s daughter
1:19:59and to let her go would create create a diplomatic crisis. It like wasn’t true, isn’t it? Why?
1:20:04And that’s how it all starts to kind of unravel for him. But he has historic ties, I mean, uh, to mafiosos and all
1:20:11sorts of really shady stuff. And I mean, he he’s a real character to say the least. But it’s wild that he is a prime
1:20:18minister of Italy. Yeah. Would be involved in such shady. No one remembers that. Yeah. This is
1:20:25this Yeah. But but it’s the idea that you, you know, you’re the prime minister. You’re
1:20:30you’re exposing yourself to one of the hugest scandals that you could go through as a prime minister. But you do it because you must feel like you can
1:20:36operate with impunity. Well, yeah, absolutely. Because by that point, I mean, he’d been in politics for ages. He controlled Italian media. He
1:20:43was the father of Italian broadcasting. I mean, he’s an extremely powerful dude. He did get away. I mean, he basically
1:20:50got away with that, too. Yeah. But but he’s really operated like a mob boss. Uh yeah, I would argue that. Well, you
1:20:57know, P2, which Burleskone was a member of, and you know, it it was on paper
1:21:03instrumental to his rise to become a super billionaire and later um
1:21:09politician. you know, it was part of this nexus I referenced earlier as it relates to Operation Gladadio, the
1:21:14Italian side of the National Crime Syndicate comes to Italy, Charles Luchiano, um, and helps set up um, that
1:21:22operation and this nexus that involved, uh, you know, American intelligence, the
1:21:27mafia, um, the Vatican, and, uh, very
1:21:32powerful Italian businessmen and politicians and diplomats.
1:21:37There’s this layer through everything. There’s well multiple layers there is a layer of well there’s multiple scandals that have
1:21:43all been memory hold and there’s been no accountability. So like I bring up a scandal like that and people are like
1:21:48whoa what but you know in a in a world where things make sense that would be known about and accountability would
1:21:54have happened and we and would have been like we’re never doing that again you know well I remember the whole when the bunga
1:22:00bunga party stuff came out and like oh well this oh I’m talking about P2 oh P2 okay but what I’m saying is on
1:22:05these layers there’s through all of this there is a layer of organized crime uh a layer of intelligence agencies a layer
1:22:12of big business and rich people and then this other layer of Young girls. Yeah. They like teens.
1:22:18They do like teens. They do like teens, but it’s a layer three. All these layers exist. Mhm. Yes. They pop up over and over
1:22:25again. I mean, I don’t know. Again, this is what I tried to show. The redundancy of
1:22:31how this keeps happening. The same names, the same people, and also the same cycles of impunity and no
1:22:37accountability. Can you make sense of it? Well, I tried to in the books. Not not
1:22:42sense as in piecing the piece together. the logic of how we exist in a world where this is just happening.
1:22:49Oh yeah. Okay. So, uh, perception management is how we exist in this and don’t really Yeah. and don’t really
1:22:55know. Sure. Well, the same guy that made PR is the same guy that made propaganda. It was Edward Bernay’s Sigman Freud’s
1:23:01nephew. Uh, who basically weaponized psychology against the whole world. Uh, because PR
1:23:07is is propaganda for corporations, right? And so he he developed both jointly.
1:23:14Okay. Okay. So, back to Epstein. How do we get from from uh a tap on the
1:23:20shoulder friends with Maxwell to this point where he’s now in with Clintons
1:23:26and Trumps with all these this like high society of Maxwell dies in 91 and that’s the first
1:23:32year that Gain and Epstein are, you know, seen out publicly dating. But
1:23:39Epstein had several girlfriends in this period and uh he took many of them on
1:23:45his Clinton White House visits which began in 1993. Uh the first one was uh
1:23:50not Mark Middleton. It was Robert Rubin that was inviting him and Robert Rubin
1:23:55um no no but his deputy was Larry Summers who as we all know now had a very cozy
1:24:02Epstein relationship and uh you know Robert Rubin uh and the repeal of
1:24:07GlassSteagall. It was Reuben had left to go work for Sandy While uh and they
1:24:14that’s the reason why Glast Eagle had to go away so that city group could merge.
1:24:19That was a that was a Clinton policy, right? Well, the the repeal of it. Yeah. Larry Summers was also a Treasury Secretary
1:24:25under Clinton. But at the time Reuben affected that Epstein visit, he wasn’t
1:24:30Treasury Secretary yet because I believe Clinton had three Treasury Secretaries. Ruben and Summers being the latter two.
1:24:36The first one was Lloyd Benson. Um, and so at that time, Ruben was head of the National Economic Council, but he had
1:24:42previously been head of uh one of the top people at Goldman Sachs. And Goldman Sachs was one of the main banks involved
1:24:48in Robert Maxwell’s funny money stuff involving the pension funds, by the way.
1:24:53Um, so I wonder how Robert Rumman and Epstein could have possibly met, but it might be somewhere in there because
1:25:00Goldman Sachs was Maxwell’s banker. All right. So, the Clintons, the connection,
1:25:07would this be uh the Israeli connection saying we want you to get closer to the
1:25:13Clintons? Is this himself just wanting to get closer just elevating his place
1:25:19in society? Well, Arib Manasha, who I mentioned earlier, said that um he under
1:25:25his understanding was that the sexual blackmail stuff of Epstein was done for Israel with the purpose of blackmailing
1:25:31Bill Clinton and a lot of the other politicians that are, you know,
1:25:37accused by Epstein, prominent Epstein accusers or otherwise named in documents, things like that, or people
1:25:43like Bill Richardson or George Mitchell. They’re both Democrats. So if you’re Israel and you’re trying to influence um
1:25:51American policy, it would actually probably behoove you to largely blackmail Democrats because Democrats
1:25:57are the ones that at least in turn they posture anyway of being more sympathetic to Palestinians than Republicans. So you
1:26:04don’t really need to blackmail Republicans to take your side when it comes to negotiations related to the
1:26:11Israel Palestine conflict. Um, and what’s interesting is, um, you know, there’s a couple other figures that
1:26:17ended up having unusual relationships with Epstein, um, that were related to some of those, uh, big, um, agreements
1:26:25on between Israel and Palestine during the Clinton era. Uh, so one of them was
1:26:31later on head of the International Peace Institute, which Epstein donated uh, a
1:26:36lot of money to. Uh, but he also gave personal loans and other things to this guy who had to step down. his name I
1:26:42think was oh I don’t know how to pronounce it but his last name was Rod Larson um and he was one of the lead negotiators on the Oslo Peace Accords in
1:26:49the early 90s as an example and George Mitchell was known as a negotiator involved in this kind of stuff too so it
1:26:55seems like um a lot of targeting was kind of done there and also allegedly there’s been a lot of um work done I
1:27:02forget the journalist’s name David Harbor I think it is anyway he went over tons of documents and other things and
1:27:08basically showed that the Monica Lewinsky thing uh Israel knew about it first and that there was a lot of
1:27:13pressing of Clinton on that point by Netanyahu to get something more favorable for Israel um
1:27:20during negotiations then and also you have uh figures like Ahood Barack and another member of the aforementioned
Modelling as Trafficking
1:27:27mega group Michael Steinhart um being instrumental in pressuring Clinton to
1:27:32pardon Mark Rich um in the final uh days of his time as president. It was one of
1:27:38those very last minute pardons that are usually pretty controversial and and Clinton’s not the only one to do that.
1:27:44Uh, you know, Trump has done some of them and pretty much every recent president has controversial pardons made
1:27:51at the last moment like Biden’s, you know, where Fouchy and his own family and things like that. So, it’s it’s
1:27:57become unfortunately a pretty common practice. Uh, but Ahud Barack was, you know, is reported to have screamed at
1:28:03Clinton about pardoning Mark Rich. So, you know, former prime minister and defense minister of Israel screaming at
1:28:09the US president telling what him what to do and then he does it. Interesting. It’s a useful tool for a president on
1:28:16the final days. Yeah. So uh it’s important to point out though that that Mark Rich um you know
1:28:21he was a commodities guy um and he was a one he was a fugitive from the US for a
1:28:27long time because he was uh he disobeyed uh US sanctions and was selling um you
1:28:32know oil um or engaged in commodity sales to basically benefit Israel um but
1:28:39was engaging uh in in uh in transactions with Iran and other companies that were you know on the naughty list of the US
1:28:46government at the time. Um, but he was a very well-known and it’s very well doumented uh asset of of MSAD and
1:28:52Israeli intelligence and had a lot of overlap with that and a lot of people that worked for him were um on Israeli
1:28:57intelligence payroll and he also had a lot of um you know his company Glen Core I believe now is Nathaniel Rothschild is
1:29:05one of the main people there and has been for some time. So he’s you know the new head of the British Rothschild
1:29:11branch. So, so, but so he went to the White House quite a few times and Bill Clinton was
1:29:17listed on his plane a lot. Well, so the plane rides that we really know about with Clinton and Epstein
1:29:23happened after Clinton left office, but Epste was meeting at the White House uh while Clinton was in office and he was
1:29:30bringing women with him. Um, and maybe he met Bill Clinton. We don’t
1:29:35really know because there hasn’t been a lot of transparency. We just know the people who were signing off, the people in the White House that signed off on
1:29:42the meeting from the visitor logs. So like Jeffrey Epste is coming. Someone writes it down and then they say, you
1:29:49know, who was the person that authorized them to come, right? So some of those meetings could have involved Clinton. We
1:29:54don’t really know. Uh but it’s it’s very possible. Uh but what’s interesting, you
1:30:00know, all we can really look at are the people that we know he was meeting with who signed off on it. So like I
1:30:05mentioned, the first one was uh Reuben and then after that almost all of them are Mark Middleton
1:30:11who later ended up Yes. dead under very unusual circumstances
1:30:16to say the least. So what was uh Clinton’s connection after he left office? Why was he spending
1:30:22Oh because Epstein was basically helping him set up the Clinton philanthropies. That’s the Clinton Foundation, the
1:30:27Clinton Global Initiative, the Clinton Health Access Initiative, which is what a lot of those flights to Africa were
1:30:32about. And that’s a lot of the people that were in Clinton’s network like Doug Band and a woman, I forget her name, but
1:30:38she was the lady that basically created on paper the Clinton Health Access Initiative and what a lot of the Africa
1:30:44trip was about that included people like Chris Tucker and Kevin Spacy and some of the more infamous flights that are are
1:30:51known about. Hold on. So, was he taking the Lolita the Lolita Express? It’s like they’re laughing at us. Were they taking that?
1:30:57That’s the nickname for it. Yeah. Would they Oh, it wasn’t. I Sorry. I assume that was No, that’s not the official name.
1:31:03Oh, I thought it was like I don’t think it had So, he was taking that plane to Africa.
1:31:09Yeah. Mhm. And he also went to Asia with Epstein, but it’s like a It wasn’t a great plane,
1:31:14right? It was a crappy 727. Uh I I don’t remember the American model, but yeah,
1:31:20I’m a bit of a plane geek. You can get better. Okay. Well, then you know better than me. I’m I think it’s a 727. the planes as it
1:31:26relates to Epste I’m most aware of are southern air transport which we should definitely talk about. Well, tell me about that.
1:31:31Well, because it relates to the Middleton stuff. Okay. So, Middleton at the time Epstein is meeting with him is involved in this
1:31:38scandal that is sort of revolves around uh Clinton’s re-election campaign uh in
1:31:4496 I guess, but it is much more than that. It’s remembered today as a Clinton
1:31:50as a as a campaign finance scandal where basically uh people that were not citizens of the US were funneling a ton
1:31:57of money to the DNC, the Democratic National Committee illegally. Um and that was absolutely happening. But a lot
1:32:03more was going on. Uh a lot of these businessmen, uh they were Chinese and they were all trying to get access, most
1:32:10of them to Ron Brown, the commerce secretary. He’s the one that we brought up earlier because he died in the
1:32:16suspicious plane crash along with the department the sub department in the department of commerce that was most
1:32:22targeted with this group which uh is the ITA I think that’s international trade administration
1:32:28pretty much the top staff of that department was taken out with Ron Brown in in one go and the guy at the airport
1:32:34that was allegedly responsible the navigator was found dead of an alleged self- afflicted shotgun wound to the
1:32:40chest like two days after And uh Ron Brown uh had a wound in his head when he
1:32:46was found in the plane crash. That is uh if you look at it objectively, it’s a bullet hole and that was not inflicted
1:32:53by the crash. No survivors. So on this podcast, you are definitely
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1:33:56Okay. So, why were they trying to get after Ron Brown? Uh, China is very
1:34:02complicated. H it Congress tried to investigate it. They were stonewalled by
1:34:08every agency. It was crazy. Uh Mark Middleton pleaded the fifth when he was brought in I think almost 30 times.
1:34:16Uh no one wanted to say anything about this and it’s been extremely memory hold. So why was Epstein meeting with
1:34:23Middleton while Middleton was a central figure um in all of this? So really one of the
1:34:28main nexuses of China aren’t Chinese, they’re Indonesian. They’re the Riyotti
1:34:34family. And the Riotti family had a lot of business interests also in the United States. Um, and they were very close to
1:34:41a finance seir uh based in Arkansas named Jackson Stevens who is very
1:34:47important to the rise of the Clintons as a political dynasty. So that’s important
1:34:52there. Um, on the other side of it, the Riyadis uh also uh were very close to
1:34:58BCCI Hong Kong. And when BCCI was imploding, they tried to rescue specifically that Hong Kong branch um
1:35:07and had a lot of connections to sort of those networks there. They try and rope in Chinese government linked firms um to
1:35:15help them rescue it. Um and that they don’t rescue it, but they continue. They basically make joint ventures with the
1:35:21Chinese government. And so the Riottis uh and a lot of people who worked for them that were Chinese nationals uh end
1:35:30up being the people that are the Chinese figures in China, but they’re really
1:35:35working for this Indonesian guy that’s in bed with the Chinese government. So it’s a little broader than just China.
1:35:42And essentially what I would argue was going on is that sensitive US military technology was being given to the
1:35:49Chinese military in exchange for Chinese weapons flooding
1:35:55being smuggled really into the United States. So why would they do that? Well, the US was the Chinese uh the number one
1:36:04spot for Chinese weapons purchases up until they were banned uh by Clinton.
1:36:10And part of that was in exchange um to get Congress to grant China most favorable nation status for trade
1:36:17because they didn’t have that before and they wanted that and it was a major impediment to the US Chinese economic
1:36:22relationship that exists today because if you aren’t an MFN or most favored nation it’s much harder for you to
1:36:29establish that kind of uh you know economic dependency really which is what it’s developed into you know everything
1:36:35is is made in China you know it wouldn’t have been as easy to sort of establish that but anyway
1:36:40uh they still wanted to sell the weapons to somebody. They the the Chinese weapons market lost its number one customer.
1:36:47So how were the weapons getting in? Um
1:36:53around the same time, Jeffrey Epstein, who has power of attorney over all of
1:36:58Leslie Wexner’s affairs from 93 on, um and Wexner’s business interest start uh
1:37:05basically negotiating the relocation of this airline called Southern Air Transport uh from Miami, where it had
1:37:12been located uh to Columbus, Ohio, where the Limited and Wexner’s business interests are based.
1:37:18And prior to this, the Southern uh Southern Air Transport was known for being a CIA owned airline that later
1:37:24became a CIA de factoowned airline that was the main airline in Iran, Contra,
1:37:29that was moving weapons and drugs uh between the US and Latin America. Uh
1:37:34with a major uh node in their trajectory in that scandal being Mina, Arkansas at
1:37:41the time Bill Clinton was governor. And there’s a lot of uh you know talking
1:37:48about the Clinton Clinton kill list as it’s called. A lot of those earlier names on that are related to Mina
1:37:54specifically. Um but anyway, it relocated to Columbus. Instead of going
1:38:00from North America to South America or Central America, it starts going to Hong Kong
1:38:06and people in Ohio’s government at the time basically start calling it
1:38:12organized crime links. Uh, one I think the Ohio Inspector General reportedly called it the Mayor Lansky run. People
1:38:19there knew that there was some shady crime stuff going on. And as I mentioned earlier, uh, there’s this document of
1:38:27Columbus PD linking Waxner to organized crime before this happens.
1:38:32So the main Chinese companies, arms companies involved, we have one called
1:38:38Poly Technologies that’s tied directly to the Chinese military and then Nareno
1:38:43who I mentioned earlier because they had been in this joint venture with Douglas Lease uh from 1983 on which is when
1:38:50their profits start to skyrocket. they start selling um becoming the main weapons supplier to I uh Iran and all
1:38:56sorts of governments around the world mostly the third world but like I mentioned earlier they had become a
1:39:02major supplier to the US until this move was made in the early Clinton administration um and this is really I
1:39:08would argue part of a much larger scandal here or appears to be um because
1:39:14if you’re familiar with Gary Webb and the Dark Alliance about um
1:39:19crack cocaine exploding um and all of that involving CIA and the
1:39:24Iran Contra network. Um, if you look, so one the CIA director at the time came to one of those communities to talk and
1:39:31basically be like, you know, nothing to see here. And there’s a lady that stands up and is like,
1:39:39about the drugs. Where are all the guns coming from? Because guns were being flooded in into the Pacific. And these
1:39:47same networks were caught by the FBI uh trafficking weapons into California
1:39:52during the same period of time. They busted it. Uh, it’s called Operation Dragonfire, but the the higher ups were
1:39:58tipped off ahead of time and escaped. And so only like really low-lying people in the hierarchy of that operation ended
1:40:05up going to prison for it. And it it’s never been properly investigated at all.
1:40:11Um, and a lot of really strange stuff is is going on sort of if you look at that as a broader scandal. So you have uh
1:40:19weapons flooding these areas, you have drugs flooding these areas,
1:40:24and allegedly, you know, you have um hip-hop gangster rap being orchestrated
1:40:30by record companies for the benefit of private prisons. Um and why is that
1:40:36significant? Well, the promise software scandal I mentioned earlier is very complex again, but one of the main
1:40:42players in that is Wacken Hut. And another one of the main players in that is MCA, the Music Corporation of
1:40:48America. Um, which later um, uh, basically it’s, uh, subsequent
1:40:54iterations come to dominate hiphop in that period. Um, and Wacken Hut, uh,
1:41:00which is now Geog Group is one of the was then and still is now one of the main private prison companies um, in the
1:41:06US. And then Clinton passes the crime bill uh that you know uh the in 1994
1:41:12that basically uh makes all of these things offenses and makes it much easier fills the prisons
1:41:18to fill the prisons. Mhm. And what are some of the companies that end up using prison labor around
1:41:25this time? Well, Leslie Wexner’s Victoria’s Secret is one. Are they really? And Yep. Well, not anymore because it
1:41:31got found out, but in this period of time it was. And where they paid like 17 cents an hour. Mhm. it. I mean, it’s it’s free slave
1:41:37labor basically. Yeah. And then another company that I believe still uses it is
1:41:42General Dynamics, which is Lester Crown’s company. Uh Lester Crown being one of the mega group guys. Um and then,
1:41:50uh you know, some of the biggest corporations in the world. One of them is Walmart, which has long-standing ties
1:41:55to the Clinton family, uh the Waltons and all of that. So, um it’s very messed
1:42:03up and should be investigated. It has not been investigated. I mean, Gary Webb has essentially been vindicated since
1:42:09then, but he was smeared and attacked and ended up dying. Some people say suspiciously. His family denies that,
1:42:15and I’m not going to be the one to say definitively what happened. Um, but
1:42:20obviously something. It’s not like the network that that engaged in all of the
1:42:26uh illegal activity in Iran Contra just they got caught and then all pardoned by
1:42:31Bill Bar and then just stopped doing what they were doing, you know. Um that’s not how this stuff works. It’s
1:42:39just like BCCI. BCCI implodes and gets found out the people using it and the
1:42:44people running it didn’t just stop, you know, at least the people pulling the strings. They need something else to
1:42:49service their interests in those ways. So, they make something else. You know, at what point did Mark Middleton decide
1:42:56to hang himself and shoot himself in the chest at the same time? Uh, it was 2022.
Mark Middleton & Clinton Links
1:43:01So, it was well after the China Gate stuff had presumably been forgotten about, but it was shortly after uh uh
1:43:08the Daily Mail actually was the outlet that did it of all outlets um revealed the full extent of the of Epste’s visits
1:43:14to the White House and showed that most of his meetings were with Middleton because before that it was thought to be
1:43:19only like I think three or four meetings mostly about a uh a White House
1:43:25fundraiser that Hillary Clinton was running that was also very suspect. I talk about that in my book. It was
1:43:30supposedly to redecorate the White House. It probably was not. Um but
1:43:36um where’s the overlap with Trump because he was he was hanging out with
1:43:41Trump in Sure. But Trump, you know, back in the 90s and 80s, he was like a Democrat. He
1:43:47was friends with the Clintons, right? Just part of that crowd. Yeah. Sure. But I mean the Epstein Trump
1:43:52thing, it there’s kind of different angles there because when Clinton was president, it’s not like Trump was in and around the White House then. I mean,
1:43:59obviously Trump as a politician comes later. Um Trump was bailed out um in the
1:44:04early 1990s um by, you know, Rothschild banking interest, the same banking
1:44:09interest that had brought Robert Maxwell to New York. They’re on the same yacht. Um you know, Roy Conn is part of that
1:44:16network uh of of that are, you know, in meshed with the people that Maxwell is hiring to advise him on how to best
1:44:23influence uh New York high society in DC politics. H
1:44:29you know so and and before that Trump had um you know I think 87 uh taken de
1:44:35facto control of this you know company that was created as a CIA front and had years of being tied to the mob called
1:44:41Resorts International. Um and he used that to kind of try and uh establish himself in Atlantic New
1:44:49Jersey at the time they were trying to make Atlantic City uh the New Vegas. Right. He did. He did, as I understand
1:44:55it, kick Epstein out of Mara Lago, right, for being a bit weird and creepy. Yeah, that’s uh so there’s conflicting
1:45:03stories again about why they parted ways. Um so uh Trump has now said it’s
1:45:09because Epstein was poaching employees. The most famous poached employee is Virginia when she was like 15
1:45:16or something like that. Um uh but there’s also it seems like they their
1:45:22relationship soured because they were both trying to compete uh for the purchase of this uh Palm Beach property
1:45:28uh this mansion. Um and then I I believe Trump won. Epstein wanted it and there was acrimony between them and Trump sold
1:45:35it to some uh Russian or Ukrainian billionaire guy that then bulldozed it. Kind of a whole very suspect thing
1:45:41there. Um, but you know, a lot of Trump’s real estate interests, you know, the Russia gate stuff, uh, a lot of it
1:45:48was, you know, looking at some of these shady Russian figures that had, uh, done
1:45:53real estate deals with Trump um, in the past because Trump is a real estate guy before he was a politician. And but a
1:46:01lot of those, you know, were used to say, “Oh, he’s owned by Putin.” And I, you know, if you look at those
1:46:06individuals, they go back to Simeon Mogulich. they go back to the mobster guy that was close to Maxwell and and
1:46:13all these other people and banked by Saffas and the Bank of New York and and all of this stuff. So, um, you know, it
1:46:21seems to be this particular crowd that, um, you know, they had became very imshed with. And again, um, Trump was
1:46:28bailed out, uh, by Wilbur Ross and Enm Rosschild, uh, when his Atlantic City
1:46:34stuff and, you know, all all of those efforts went haywire for him. And, uh, to paraphrase uh, one of the bankers on
1:46:41that deal, they didn’t rescue Trump because it made economic sense. they rescued him because his brand was valuable,
1:46:48you know, and it obviously uh has been very valuable. But I think, you know, if
1:46:53you want to talk about the Epstein Trump relationship, a lot of people are like, “Oh, well, did Epste have dirt on
1:46:59Trump?” I mean, maybe. But ultimately, it doesn’t really matter because, you know, the same people the same people
1:47:06are kind of behind both of them. You know what I’m You know what I’m saying? Um the power structure that that has
1:47:12enabled Trump uh from that point on um is is very similar to the Epstein
1:47:20Maxwell network. There’s an extreme amount of overlap there. So when did all the
1:47:26kind of all the weird stuff started with the young girls being shipped around start? Cuz like I feel like most of us
1:47:32understanding of the Epstein story starts really from the philanthropy where he was trying to support Bill
1:47:38Gates philanthropy. He was Yeah. Most people are familiar with, you
1:47:43know, the early 2000s on. We all know the backstory since, but it’s kind of like we start to hear about
1:47:49him having meetings on the There’s accusers from the ‘9s. Sure. I think the earliest is like ‘ 91 or
1:47:54’92, maybe. I I I don’t know. I I mean I’m not an expert on every accuser of
1:48:00Epstein ever. I focus more on who was Epste and what was he really up to
1:48:05besides sex trafficking in addition to trying delineate who were you know what was the power structure that enabled
1:48:10Epstein to operate with impunity with respect to the sex trafficking as well. That’s more my interest and focus
1:48:16cuz like the the the Bill Gates divorce feels very fishy. Well, yeah. I mean, well, Melinda was like, you know,
1:48:25say that some of it was related to Epstein, but I mean, it’s hard to know if that was really why or that was just
1:48:30a convenient excuse to cut the cord, you know. Um, well, you know, it’s not like
1:48:35billionaires are the most truthful people on the planet, you know.
1:48:41Um, okay. So, okay, let’s go let’s go therefore to his sweetheart deal, his
1:48:46first. if you know if he’s being protective, if he’s a asset of intelligence agencies,
1:48:53why does he face an initial prosecution? Um, well, obviously the sentence he got,
1:49:00I think in total was like 18 months and it was like minimum security. He was allowed like allowed to leave the prison
1:49:05during the day to work. He had like a private office. Yeah. But I think the most important part of it um in terms of of what we’re
1:49:13talking about is that it um was supposed to grant immunity to a lot of co-conspirators,
1:49:20right? um which included was supposed to include Galileain Maxwell and actually there there may be a Supreme Court case
1:49:27heard about this because Maxwell’s attorney is um and Maxwell herself
1:49:32obviously is arguing that because of that uh agreement which was you know with the the government or at least the
1:49:40the government of Florida but I think it was the federal government um you know they should honor that and shouldn’t it have prosecuted her
1:49:46for the case that she was convicted for more recently. Um, and I I don’t know. We’ll see what
1:49:53happens there. It’s it’s it’s complicated stuff, but a lot of the stuff Galain is in prison for right now,
1:49:59I believe, is stuff that’s alleged to have occurred earlier than the period most people think of. It’s related to the ‘9s. Um, as as I understand it.
1:50:07So, she was trafficking young girls around the whole I think it was it seems like it began,
Prince Andrew
1:50:13you know, the operation. It seems to have begun in the in the early 90s around the time Maxwell died and Epste
1:50:20and and Galain are publicly seen together. This all I mean this all became a story in the UK obviously because of Prince
1:50:26Andrew. That’s where our interest comes in. Oh, and what’s crazy about that relationship is that
1:50:32there were so many articles from like 2000, 2001, and 2002 about that that
1:50:38basically say things like, uh, Galileain is is appears to be blackmailing Andrew for
1:50:44Epstein back then. It’s nuts. And talks about, um, Prince Andrew bringing his own massage table to
1:50:51be massaged by like Epstein’s entourage and stuff. and that Galain is
1:50:56charismatic and can wrap men around her little finger and you know all sorts of I mean some of the quotes are just
1:51:02bonkers. Did you ever see his interview with the BBC? Uh just clips from it, you know, where he claims like he’s unable to sweat.
1:51:09Unable to sweat. Yeah. Cuz trauma from uh the Falklands. Um the whole I mean I
1:51:15was watch the whole thing. It’s one of the wildest interviews you’ll ever see. I mean [ __ ] knows why he chose to do it
1:51:21because he’s a terrible liar. Yeah. He probably thought it would work. I mean, I mean, it totally backfired. We
1:51:28Oh, I’m sure powerful people like him are surrounded by Yesmen. Yeah. So, that probably didn’t help. Yeah. I mean, he’s kind of been
1:51:34ostracized by the royal family now in some ways. Yeah. Um but but he got away with it.
1:51:40Yeah. And the weirdest part of him was after I mean you’re you’re a
1:51:45but I mean you know uh wasn’t Prince Charles or King Charles at one point very close to Jimmy Savile and some of
1:51:51these other figures at Lord Mountbatton. Yeah. Uh I don’t know the detail. Um
1:51:57yeah I don’t I don’t know. But I always thought it was wild that uh Prince Andrew as a royal and essentially an
1:52:03heir to the throne of some sort uh would go and visit Epste and go for a walk in Central Park with him
1:52:09after a prosecution. Some people say that Epstein and Andrew met in as early as 91.
1:52:15Wow. That’s alleged by Steve Hoffenberg, his former business partner who did the Ponzi scheme with him at Tower
1:52:20Financial. And you can take that with a grain of salt if you want. I mean, obviously, uh Andrew himself says it
1:52:26occurred much later. I think he says 99. Um, well, everyone has their own window, right?
1:52:32Yeah. Uh, everyone I mean, again, there’s so many issues of conflicting stories about when who met who in the
1:52:37Epstein story, but it’s because people want to absolve themselves of responsibility as much as possible. Yeah.
1:52:42Um, so again, it’s Yeah. So, it’s it’s kind of complicated there, but there’s allegations of it going back earlier.
1:52:48But what’s interesting is that when Andrew was publicly known to be with Epstein and Galain and it was the
1:52:54subject of much media speculation in the UK which is you know 2000 to 2002
1:53:00roughly. Um Andrew in that window is appointed to this role where he’s the UK representative for uh international
1:53:07trade and investment and in doing so has a major role in uh arms deals.
1:53:15Uh yes, specifically lobby on behalf of BAE Systems, which is a major UK defense
1:53:21contractor that previously worked very closely with Douglas Lease. Um in the Thatcher era, Lease was uh responsible
1:53:28for getting the Alyah deal signed to benefit BAE. Um and that is one of the
1:53:34reasons uh for the extreme closeness to this day of of British and Saudi interests.
1:53:39H we we haven’t talked about Leon Black yet. No, we can. Well,
1:53:45so I think a lot of people want to see a black book of who
1:53:51uh who who the pedophiles are, who the people who were sleeping with children or sleeping with teenagers.
Leon Black’s Money Trail
1:53:57Really quick, the black book is already exists, but one thing we haven’t brought up is how uh the person who stole it
1:54:04from Epstein’s house was his former butler named Alfredo Rodriguez. And Alfredo Rodriguez offered it. He was
1:54:11trying to get money for it, but he circled names in it trying to give it to the victim’s lawyer saying this is the
1:54:16holy grail of who was responsible uh or who were um major accessories to Epstein
1:54:23sex trafficking crimes, right? And so Gain is circled, Leslie Wexner is circled, Jean Luke Bernell is circled,
1:54:30but so is Donald Trump. So is this guy named Flavio Briator uh who is known uh
1:54:36I did an article about him recently. He introduced uh Naomi Campbell to Epstein for example, but he’s very close to
1:54:43Burlescone who we talked about earlier. But is this why Musk came out and said the reason Trump’s not released in the files is because he’s in the
1:54:49uh I mean it it possibly could be related. Uh because that’s what the butler was saying. And but no one can
1:54:55ask him why he circled the name because he’s dead. He died in 2014. Suspicious. Um, I mean, he allegedly
1:55:03took the book saying that he needed insurance because Epstein wanted him to disappear.
1:55:09So, he seemed to view it that way. Uh, but then the victim lawyer that he was offering it to, Brad Edwards, uh, tipped
1:55:16off the FBI and the FBI sought up a sting operation and then, uh, or sent him to prison for obstructing justice
1:55:22and he got the same sentence Epstein got, 18 months, I believe.
1:55:27How did he die? Um, I think his wife said that it was some type of fast acting cancer.
1:55:33Okay. Okay. Um, but either way, he can’t be asked about it, but that does seem significant
1:55:40because, you know, some people have said, “Oh, well, he wanted money, so he was just ciring circling names of billionaires.” But there’s people in the
1:55:47black book that were much richer than some of the people circled there. Certainly much richer than Maxwell or
1:55:52Jean Luke Brunell. Obviously, Leslie Wexner and Trump are very rich. uh and some of the other but some of the other
1:55:58names aren’t nearly as rich as other people that are in this book like Tom Pritsker who runs high at hotels who is
1:56:05fabulously wealthy for example there’s definitely if you just wanted to pick billionaires to shake down you could
1:56:10have you would have just picked the highest net worth individuals right and that’s not what is the case here and
1:56:16also a lot of the names that are circled it’s panned out that they were co-conspirators right like Wexner uh
1:56:22Maxwell Brunell for example they’re the most well-known associated names with the case besides Epstein himself.
1:56:29All right. So, Le Leon Black uh gave Epstein was it 158 million?
1:56:35Yeah. A lot of money. Um I’m not an expert on exact I mean I haven’t written extensively about uh those dealings
1:56:43beyond what what’s been reported in the press. But I can talk about Leon Black going farther back because it’s it’s
1:56:49kind of interesting. He started off as a major guy at Drexel Burnernham Lambert which is this banking nexus uh that was
1:56:56important to uh the SNL crisis and also the junk bond explosion. Uh Michael
1:57:02Milin was the architect of that. He was pardoned by Trump in his first term for uh so he’s no longer a felon. He’s one
1:57:08of those guys that’s rebranded as a philanthropist um in recent years actually very successfully. Um
1:57:14haven’t they all done this? Yeah. He I mean major financial crimes went on and and uh you know the junk
1:57:20bonds were used to fuel a lot of these corporate raiders uh that ended up taking over major swasts of uh the
1:57:26American corporate landscape and really centralizing them uh within this group that is the subject of of my book. Um
1:57:35and so Leon Black was a part of that. And what’s interesting also uh as an aside is that his father, Eli Black, uh
1:57:41died rather suspiciously, falling out of a high-rise window when he was the head of United Fruit Company. That’s the same
1:57:46fruit company that CIA did cues for. Yeah. Um and then it was taken over by
1:57:52um Leslie Wixner, Leslie Wexner’s business mentors, uh Max Fisher.
1:57:58Going back to your uh yacht um explanation, there’s a lot of people who seem to have got off the yacht.
1:58:04Yeah. or they or they just rub they they they threaten deals, you know, or they they make mistakes
1:58:11uh and expose themselves too much. I mean, I think there’s a lot of reasons. I mean, you can slip and fall off the
1:58:17yacht, right? Uh or you can deliberately decide to try and hop off, and I think, you know, some of these things are
1:58:22related to that. But anyway, yeah, Leon Black um obviously operates in in these networks and has for uh a long time.
1:58:30from Apollo Global Management um is his firm that he funded with other exrexal people and what he’s known for uh now
1:58:38and uh his crimes with Epstein uh were investigated by an eternal internal
1:58:44group at Apollo um that exonerated him. One of the lead authors on that is a guy
1:58:50named Alvin Buzzy Coneguard, uh, who used to be executive director of the CIA
1:58:56and is one of the, uh, main suspects in 9/11 insider trading. It’s a meta cartel.
1:59:04H, I mean, it looks that way to me. Um, but Leon Black, you know, it it was
1:59:09supposedly for philanthropic purposes, right? And so this is um one of those
1:59:14examples where Epstein is one of these types of figures that was important in the world of philanthropy from the post
1:59:222000s on because you know things like the Clinton Foundation, the Gates Foundation, they were uh you know
1:59:28reported about by outlets like the Huffington Post as ushering in this new era of philanthropy through impact
1:59:33investing and things like that. Um and CL Epstein was intimately involved in
1:59:38setting up both of those and Isabelle Maxwell has very unusual
1:59:45ties to Bill Gates too that pre that go back to like the late 90s early 2000s
1:59:50that are very strange. So, uh something weird was going on at at Microsoft with
1:59:56Microsoft’s top people. And then what a lot of people don’t talk about either when they talk about the Gates relationship is that Epstein was also
2:00:02very close to the chief techn technical officer of Microsoft, Nathan Mervald. um
2:00:08and actually went on a Microsoft uh business trip to Russia in the late 90s that Mervald was present for um that you
2:00:16know I apparently they can’t explain but I would argue that’s one of those trans ideological uh corporations things
2:00:22because that Sam Pisar guy I mentioned earlier the Maxwell confidant that talked about all this to Congress and was like it’s actually not a bad thing.
2:00:29um he was a a lawyer for Apple and Steve Jobs referring to him was like I don’t
2:00:35know if he worked for the CIA or the KGB but really he probably worked for both. Um but he was uh Pisar and other people
2:00:42were about getting Silicon Valley established in in some of these other countries and you know furthering this
2:00:49uh the the trans ideological corporation model where you know corporations run
2:00:54the world and the nation state and nation state sovereignty is irrelevant or doesn’t exist.
2:01:00Where’s Leon Black now? Um I believe he’s still at Apollo, isn’t he? I haven’t
Why Epstein Was Disposable
2:01:05I mean I haven’t followed him really ever that closely because I found other parts of the case more interesting. But
2:01:10I think he’s one of those obvious signposts that show that people came to Epstein to manage money when they wanted to
2:01:17evade taxes or engage in uh money laundering or some other sort of financial funny business
2:01:23or maybe wanted a certain type of entertainment. Well, that’s been alleged too. Black
2:01:28denies it. Um of course it’s not like hey I’m a veto. Yeah. Um, okay. So, if we if we
2:01:37move to where uh was it 2019 Epstein was rearrested
2:01:43or reprosecuted the second time. Yeah. It was SDNY going after him. Uh
2:01:49because the other cases, remember, were all took place in Florida. Yes. And so this is a totally different
2:01:55district going after him. But but you believe at this point he’s being discarded.
2:02:02So, I I can’t say with any certainty I know why it was. But here’s the thing. I don’t think the US government,
2:02:08specifically a a district as known to be as corrupt as the Southern District of New York, SDNY,
2:02:15uh would be like outraged on behalf of the victims that Epstein hadn’t been had
2:02:21been let off so leniently uh 12 years before and it was all because of Julie Brown at the Miami
2:02:27Herald. They decided to go after him. I mean, that just seems like a cover story to me. Not to imply that that Julie
2:02:33Brown was involved in that. Um, but I think it her reporting gave them an opening to go after this guy, at least
2:02:39some faction, uh, for something. Yeah, I think uh, Epstein probably pissed off someone. I want to talk to you about one
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2:04:16You have some you mentioned earlier because I wrote it down. I do have a theory, but I I mean it it again it’s
MBS, CIA & Revenge
2:04:22hard to know and this is inherently speculative, so I really want to preface that. Okay. Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of people
2:04:27because I I talk about controversial things uh and I’m uh very critical of
2:04:33billionaires uh like to twist my words. Um so trying to be careful. This will end up a five 5-second AI
2:04:41things. Yeah, I have a major AI slop impersonation problem that we can talk about later because it’s insane. Um but
2:04:47yeah um sorry we were talking about so you have a
2:04:52my theory about why Yeah. Yeah. So um
2:04:58John Brennan is a CIA was CIA director under Obama and there’s a lot of weird
2:05:04things around him. Um so for example uh Michael
2:05:09Hastings a lot of people have forgotten about him. He died suspiciously just as he was about to publish an expose on
2:05:16John Brennan. He had probably publish previously published um something on Stanley Mcrist who was a major general
2:05:22at that time who had to resign because of the reporting. Um so there’s been speculation about that uh about what
2:05:29happened to Hastings. And then there was a Wikileaks release after about how the CIA had the ability to uh take control
2:05:35of someone’s car and cause something like what happened to Michael Hastings who died in a weird explosion in his
2:05:41car. Um anyway, um so John Brennan has
2:05:47that to his his record. Um but um I think if not him, someone in his
2:05:54network, but probably him got very mad at at Epstein because I think Epstein
2:06:00was likely involved with the rise of the current count crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Muhammad bin Salman, who had a
2:06:06very uncharacteristic rise to power, I believe in 2017 or so. Um and Epstein
2:06:12was very involved in Saudi Arabia. Um, going back to his relationship with Kosogi, um, he had there’s this issue
2:06:18for example and talking about his intelligence links. He had this Austrian passport that showed Epstein’s face, but
2:06:24a fake name. Um, and all of the stuff, and it was frequently travel, he was using it to frequently travel back to
2:06:31and from Saudi Arabia and all these other places. Um, and I think his address on it was listed
2:06:37as as being Saudi or something like that. Um, and obviously Koshogi was a
2:06:43very important player in Saudi world and Epstein and him had a had a pretty important relationship. Um, and as it
2:06:51relates to John Brennan, John Brennan had been CIE station chief in the capital of Saudi Arabia for a long time.
2:06:56And the crown prince that was deposed by Muhammad bin Salman, we’ll call him NBS
2:07:02for now. um that NBS took out of power uh had been the guy that uh Brennan had
2:07:08basically groomed to be the new crown prince. That was like his the CIA’s golden boy, you could say.
2:07:14So Epstein interfered. Well, I think Epstein was part of of the group that put NBS into power. Uh
2:07:21pictures of them figured prominently together, figured prominently in his his townhouse. I think Epste was an
2:07:27architect of uh MBS’s vision 2030 which was his view his his policies for a post
2:07:32oil Saudi Arabia. Um and Epste appears to have been uh managing Saudi wealth funds at least one sovereign wealth fund
2:07:40of theirs. Um and I say that about vision 2030 because one of the first things MBS did as part of that was to
2:07:47promote uh Sophia the robot. He gave her citizenship to be like the first robot
2:07:54to be granted citizenship. Uh but the people that made that robot, Ben Girtzel and Hansen Robotics, heavily funded by
2:08:00Epstein. Um so I think it’s very likely he was the one that connected him and he was very interested in AI and robotics,
2:08:07transhumanism, um and a lot of the stuff that’s sort of within vision 2030.
2:08:13But ultimately his uh what he was doing was working against US interest at that point. Well, I mean, again, this is a
Trump, Kushner & Shadow Games
2:08:20transnational thing, and so you have transnational factions, too. But basically, I think it’s pretty clear that the Obama
2:08:28faction is different than the Trump faction, right? And so, you’re having someone like John Brennan getting pissed off at
2:08:33whoever took uh out his his favored leader of Saudi Arabia and put in NBS
2:08:42because MBS was too young to be crowned prince. It it’s about seniority in Saudi Arabia. It doesn’t go father son like
2:08:49that because I mean when you’re king of Saudi Arabia you have like an insane number of kids right and so it tends to
2:08:55be passed through uncles and you know it’s seniority and he came to power in his early 30s and then he did he put all
2:09:00these other uh Saudi royals and and prominent aristocrats you know and the Ritz Carlton I don’t know if you
2:09:05remember this they were like hung upside down the meeting the shakeown all of that stuff happened yeah so there
2:09:12was obviously a big shakeup of the power structure of Saudi Arabia which is always been very close to US interests
2:09:20um when he uh comes to power and NBS not only had close ties to Epstein, he also
2:09:25had really close ties to Jared Kushner. Uh apparently Kushner and Adam Newman of Weiwork, the Israeli guy uh were texting
2:09:34each other all the time and they were going to solve that bring peace to the Middle East and help and develop uh what would you
2:09:41know part of what would become the Abraham Accords together. Okay. So obviously NBS is tight with the
2:09:48Trump crowd. And so even if Epstein and Trump didn’t like each other personally
2:09:53at this point, that doesn’t mean that the power structure that has enabled them both to do their thing. I mean they
2:09:59they still operate in that arguably. I I mean that that’s what it looks like to me. So I think um yeah Epstein pissed
2:10:07off interest related to John Brennan and John Brennan was also an architect of Russia gate right which was also aimed
2:10:13at Trump and then the whole Jamal Kosigible thing happens and NBS’s charm offensive where he’s like I’m a reformer
2:10:20I’m here in Saudi Arabia I’m going to change everything up and open movie theaters and let women have some rights
2:10:26you know and all of that. Yeah. um he he w he paid a ton of money for that and then the Jamal Kosogi thing
2:10:32just evaporated it like that, you know. Um and so I think there was um stuff
2:10:38that went on to kind of get at Trump and um and NBS and I think also of course
2:10:45Epstein not long after all of that. But again, Epstein, you know,
2:10:52had his hand in too many pies for to to it to be like fleshed out to the full extent, you know, so it had to be kind
2:10:57of a controlled demolition. And what’s interesting, so I brought up William Bar a few times. He’s basically the
2:11:02Republican CIA mop-up man. Um, but one of the main lawyers
2:11:09uh for Epstein victim, Stanley Pottinger, is basically that for the Democrats.
2:11:15Mhm. Uh, and his law partner, Brad Edwards, is the one that, uh, tipped the
2:11:20FBI off about the guy with the black book and got him sent to prison. I mean, there’s kind of some weird stuff there.
2:11:26So, anyway, if you want to do a controlled demolition, so to speak, of Epstein, you need to have at least some
2:11:33control of both sides. And it’s interesting that one of the, you know, main prosecutors for, I think, Maxwell’s
2:11:39case and then later the Diddy case, uh, is is James Comey’s daughter, Marine Comey.
2:11:45I mean, you have like a lot of powerful connections here and I think a part of
2:11:50it is is aimed at controlling both sides because you can’t have too much come out, you know. Yeah. And so at that point, yeah,
Did Epstein Kill Himself?
2:11:58they’ve I mean, they got comprom. Well, sure. Yeah. And so he’s done. He’s cooked. Um
2:12:05facing prosecution. Uh do you think he killed himself?
2:12:12Yeah. So, I don’t buy the official narrative about how he killed himself. Um, but I also don’t want to say I know
2:12:18what happened authoritatively because I don’t think anyone does. No. Right. Because even now with attempts to
2:12:24release footage and whatever, it it’s inconclusive and doesn’t show anything and there’s like a bit of footage
2:12:29missing and it flickers. Right. Yeah. It’s like they’re not very good. No, but I think they were just hoping
2:12:35that, you know, it would be enough to keep people quiet and memoryhole it and make people It’s done the opposite.
2:12:41Huh. It’s done the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. But I I mean a lot of
2:12:46poor calculations I think were made, you know. Do you think this is just going to fade
2:12:51away now? I mean, I hope not. Uh obviously, because I think it’s a huge miscarriage
2:12:58of justice. Uh because I mean, even beyond the sex trafficking stuff, you know, this is a a network involved in
2:13:04extreme financial criminality. There’s a lot of weird stuff with Epstein, for example, in the 2008 financial crisis
2:13:10that hasn’t been appropriately um investigated um as which was, you know,
2:13:16in essence a huge wealth transfer um from the bottom 99 to the top 1% and of
2:13:23course Epstein was a major banker for the top 1%. Nobody went to jail. No, but he
2:13:28basically uh popped was the pin that popped Bear Sterns and then Bear Sterns
2:13:33is absorbed by Epstein’s new bank JP Morgan. And do you know who picked Jamie Diamond to lead uh JP Morgan? Well, a
2:13:42little farther back than that. JP Morgan uh it was Bank One merged with JP Morgan and then he became the new CEO. John
2:13:49Diamond did. But how did Diamond become head of Bank One? Well, it was the Crowns and Leslie Wexner’s right-hand
2:13:57man, uh, besides Epstein, Jack Kesler, or I guess you could say left-hand man.
2:14:02He has two hands. One’s Epstein, one is the Kesler guy, cuz Bank One was like a Ohio based bank. Uh, the guy that built
2:14:09it up, uh, was one of the mentors to Wexner. Very close network there. So,
2:14:15uh, and also had weird Iran Contra banking links. So, and and Diamond was Sandy Sandy Wild’s protege who, you
2:14:21know, was involved with the GlassSteagall stuff for Cityroup and all of that. Yeah. So, it is still it is still weird that Trump
2:14:29came in and said, “We’re going to release all the files. We’re going to release everything.” Well, I think they wanted to make people think that this was going to be a new
2:14:36era of transparency. Um, but it obviously has not been that. So, some
2:14:41documents have been made that are notable. uh they’ve they’ve been released about things like the MLK
2:14:46assassination, the JFK assassination, but those were a long time ago. All the criminals that orchestrated those
2:14:52conspiracies are dead. Yeah. Or at least almost dead, you know. I mean, Ruth Payne is still alive as it
2:14:59relates to JFK stuff. Uh they could bring her before Congress, I guess, but we’ll never talk to her. Uh but that’s
2:15:04besides the point. So, um the case with Epstein, it’s too recent. Too many people are alive. Some of them are in
2:15:10power. Well, that’s what I’m getting at cuz I’m I’m Look, if Trump’s going to come out and say, “Look, I’m going to
2:15:16release the files, I’m assuming he knows himself, he’s fairly clean in his relationship with Epstein, fairly,
2:15:22but when he gets fully exposed to the files, who within his network is exposed?”
Why Files Stay Hidden
2:15:28Sure. Well, that’s the whole thesis of this uh recent investigative series I’ve been doing called First Friends, which
2:15:34is about people who are close to Trump, uh that likely have something to lose if
2:15:40some of this stuff were to be fleshed out more, such as well, one of them is Flavia Briator, who
2:15:46I brought up earlier, who is again uh like I we we already discussed very close to Burlescone. Um and he basically
2:15:53Michelle Sedona, who I mentioned, the guy who died from the cyanide lace coffee. Um yeah, his successor at a lot
2:16:00of his shady companies, uh Briator became a mentor or not a mentor, the uh
2:16:06apprentice, the underling of that guy, uh whose name was Ailo Dudo, I believe, and he died in a car bomb that was never
2:16:13solved. And then Briator left town, got tied to um I think he went to Milan and
2:16:18got tied with tied up with all sorts of sort of underworld characters and there were wire taps of him talking to crime
2:16:25guys and he eventually had to become a fugitive from Italy and established himself in the USBI. He became the
2:16:31representative for the Benitans of United Colors of Benitin fame and later became best known as a Formula One guy
2:16:38because he was coaching the Benitin team and Michael Schumacher was his uh his
2:16:44his main guy. But then he got caught, you know, doing uh race fixing scandals while banking with the HSBC Swiss
2:16:51accounts that were all very suspect. The timing of that um overlaps. So um
2:16:58anyway, Briator is one of these circled names as I mentioned earlier. So Epstein’s butler thought they were instrumental
2:17:04um or thought he was instrumental to what was going on there. And at the event where Naomi Campbell says Briator
2:17:09introduced her to Epstein, you can see a teenage uh Virginia Grey uh being taken
2:17:15following Maxwell around like her shadow. Uh I think it was on Bria Tori’s yacht, the party. Um, and uh, Briator
2:17:23also was close to another Victoria’s Secret angel, uh, Heidi Clume, fathering one of her, um, children. And I think
2:17:30his, uh, most recent wife after that was a former, uh, employee of Burlescone,
2:17:37uh, who was a model that marketed the Wonder Bra, something like that. Uh, but he has a lot of, um, connections to the
2:17:44world of modeling that are, you know, like Epstein, um, rather suspect.
Global Victims & Grooming
2:17:49Yeah. I mean just all through this like I say there’s this there’s this this big network of I talked about these layers.
2:17:55One of the layers seems to be modeling. Yeah. Like it’s ultimately is guys and their
2:18:01perversions. Yeah. So my most recent article on this is about another modeling guy and named Paulo Zampoli who
2:18:08uh is best known now I guess because you know people have accused uh Melania and Trump of first being introduced by
2:18:14Epste. I think Epstein claimed that he first introduced them at some New York fashion event. And the first couple say
2:18:20no, it was at the Kit Kat Club. It was Paulo Zampoli that introduced us. Okay. Um but Paulo Zampoli is a protege of
2:18:27this guy named John Casablancas. I don’t know if you’re familiar with him. He um is, you know, the face of Elite Model
2:18:34Management, but he that was a merger uh between his agency and the agency of this guy named Gerard Marie, who uh then
2:18:41became head of Elite’s European branch. And Marie has been accused of of trafficking women just like John
2:18:46Lupernell. The accusations are very similar. Uh one woman accused him of trafficking her to Adnan Kosigible
2:18:53actually in the 1980s uh that Kosogi paid 50 grand just to you know meet her
2:18:59and then she was pressured into having a relationship uh with him. And basically
2:19:04you know a lot of these women they are taken to these countries with all these promises and then um you know they are
2:19:11penniless and you know to make have success in the industry predatory relationships develop because these
2:19:17modeling executives like Marie demand things if they want to have success and
2:19:22you know it’s it’s very uh it seems like a very dark industry if you’re looking at a lot of these
2:19:28people at elite I mean including Kas Casablancas who was accused of um exploiting uh his younger models as
2:19:34well. And Kasablanc has admitted that his sexual preference was for what he called child women. Um
2:19:40God and uh his third wife he met when she was 17 and he married her that same
2:19:46year. So she was technically a minor um in in Brazil. Um
2:19:51there’s a huge network of victims here then. Yeah. Well, a lot of, you know, it’s it’s strange because some of it seems
2:19:58like uh Epstein in terms of his trafficking. I mean, he wasn’t there’s the well-known scandal, but it seems
2:20:04like also so like Epstein would lure women with promises of paying their scholarships and and offering them
2:20:10modeling jobs, and he didn’t for most of the known victims, he didn’t do that. He just used that as a lure and then abused
2:20:16them and discarded them. But there were some women that he did do that for and then they get married off to very
2:20:22powerful people and some of them are the women he took took to the White House. One of them uh
2:20:27he basically handed off to Trump. That was his girlfriend before Melania. Her name’s Selena Middleart. She’s a
2:20:33Norwegian Aerys. Um another one was Francis Hardin that he passed off to John Dece who is a very a commodity
2:20:40trader very tied up in the network I talk about in my book. Um an oil trader guy who’s very very sus. Um, and then
2:20:47you have someone like Nicole Yunkerman. Uh, she’s seen on the arm of people like Paul Allen. She’s reportedly um, you
2:20:53know, uh, used to blackmail US senators on Wexner’s UK property with Epstein.
2:21:00Um, and she was elite models uh, previously. And then another model um um
2:21:07um Melanie Walker. She basically is now dating a top guy or married to a guy
2:21:12that Andreason Horowitz, but he she was Epstein’s science adviser and then Bill Gates science adviser. Um and but during
2:21:19a time when Bill Gates said he didn’t even know who Epstein was. Strange. Um but it seems like you know elite models
2:21:26it there’s something weird that was going on there. And that’s not to say that every woman that modeled for them had this experience, but there are some
2:21:33that stand out and it seems to have happened often enough. Well, it’s like rich, powerful guys want
2:21:39hot women. Yeah. And I should also say that Gerard Marie was a uh involved with the MC2
2:21:44agency that was Brunell and Epstein and and a focus of the sex trafficking case, but he’s never been charged.
2:21:51If it feels like if the French case is is dead in the water, they don’t want to go there for some reason. But if Gerard
2:21:57Marie was was pimping out uh you know young models to people like Kosigible, that would be why. You know,
2:22:04it feels like if if all of all of this was released, all the files were released, this would be a complete
2:22:11collapse of the political and financial elite. Well, okay. If the political and financial elite are, you know, part of
What If Files Leaked?
2:22:17this court cartel that is born out of organized crime and intelligence, like maybe they should collapse. Oh, no. And we want to
2:22:22because do we want to be ruled over them? No. The pro and I don’t. Yeah. But the problem is they they they’re both
2:22:29parties in the US. Yeah. And arguably they’re both parties in the UK, too. Um, you know, the the core of
2:22:35Kier Starmer’s political network is a man named Peter Mandlesson, a long time Labor Party operator. And uh the two
2:22:42closest the two people that Epstein was closest to in the UK were Mandlesen and Prince Andrew. So,
2:22:52it’s a transnational problem. And so, you know, the reason Kier Starmer’s in is because the last government was so
2:22:58terrible. And so, you know, the next cycle people will be like, I want nothing to do with labor. And they’ll just go back and it’s pingpong from one
2:23:06side to the other. But nothing fundamental changes. And so, the same is true for the US. But what they need to
2:23:12control is perception. And so I think in the US they’ve done a much better job of that than in the UK where you know the
2:23:20the Trump campaign created the perception they were going to be so radically different not just from Biden but from Trump’s first term right in
2:23:27terms of transparency and all these major changes. And so, uh, they picked a
2:23:32lot of people who Trump’s base trusted, uh, from, you know, the years prior,
2:23:38like Dan Bonino, a podcaster who was like, “Release the files.” Being put in as a deputy FBI guy and Cash Patel,
2:23:45release the files being put in as head of the FBI. But then they turn around once they’re in power and are like, “Trust us. There’s nothing to see here.”
2:23:51And I think they thought because those guys had cultivated so much trust with Trump’s base, they would believe them and that would be that. You know,
2:23:58it does feel like it will be it will be washed over. I just get this sense. It depends on on people and if they are
2:24:07willing to let something like this go. But again, we’re in an very unprecedented era of perception management, right? where there are tons
2:24:14of we’ve produced by interacting with the digital world, the internet, we have produced tons of data on ourselves that
2:24:20have been sucked up uh by companies that use AI to analyze all of that and
2:24:25profile on us. And they know how to socially engineer things in ways now that they I’m sure they wish they had
2:24:32had uh decades before. And you know, where do people go to get their news? Well, it’s on all these platforms that
2:24:39big tech uh you know controls. and uh big tech whether it’s Google uh whether
2:24:46it’s Palanteer uh whether it’s Microsoft uh or LinkedIn I mean Epstein was
2:24:52friends with all those executives Amazon uh Jeff Bezos and and M and Galain Maxwell were uh reportedly very very
2:24:59cozy I mean is everyone not implicated
2:25:04yeah sure I mean I’m not trying to say I mean a lot of people try and discredit me by saying I say absolutely everyone’s
2:25:09associated with Epstein but I mean this stuff that’s been reported on. Yeah. Right. So, you know, Sergey Brin of Google, his
2:25:16his money was being managed by Epstein at JP Morgan. It came up as part of the JP Morgan USVI case. I mean, he was
2:25:22subpoenaed as part of it. That case was settled out of court to make those types of problems go away. Another person uh
2:25:28that came up in in that case and discovery, Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel. So it’s not just Ahoud Barack because
2:25:35Netanyahu used to use this against Ahoud Barack in in the political campaign being like, “Oh, he has an Epstein tie
2:25:41and I don’t.” Well, it turns out that’s not as true as we had thought. Right. Do do Okay, so we rely on the independent
2:25:50media sometimes to do some of the investig ask the questions. Sure. Did does that feel like that’s been
2:25:56captured as well? Well, Rumble is the competitor to YouTube and it’s funded by Peter Teal and JD Vance and people like that.
2:26:03It’s just taking Tether money. Tether money. Yeah. You know, Tether have invested. I know you’ve
2:26:09invested in them. Okay. So, the Brock Pierce co-founded Brock Pierce is a weird [ __ ]
2:26:15Uh, yeah. He uh was Epstein, one of Epstein’s cryptocurrency guru guys. Uh
2:26:20came to the island to talk to him about crypto. Yes. After being involved with the digital entertainment network pedophile
2:26:26scandal. Yeah. I I always wonder on that one. Was Brooke Pierce an abuser or abused
2:26:31himself? I think he was probably both, but I think as a Disney child star, the abuse probably started long before he got in
2:26:37the Mark Collins Record Network. Yeah. Uh, but I think it’s fair to say that Galileain was probably abused by
2:26:43either her father or people around him, right? Uh, cuz that relationship I I feel bad
2:26:50for the way she was raised. It seems like a very traumatic rearing. And I think that’s probably true of all the
2:26:55Maxwell children, but it seemed like his control the way he controlled Galain was was different.
2:27:01And his boat was the Lady Galain. Yeah. And he had like a sexualized portrait of her up in it. I mean, it was
2:27:07very weird. Um so you know I think those things happen. I mean people have
2:27:12alleged too that you know um a lot of times people who were offenders return
2:27:18to the place or uh where they were you know um attacked abused um and then try
2:27:25and repeat it there. And so since Epstein was at Interlockan when he was a teen and then went back to offend there
2:27:31you know some people have speculated maybe he was first uh you know something happened to him when he was a teen.
2:27:37Again, we don’t really know, but it’s very common. Yeah, Gain’s situation is quite weird right
2:27:42now. Oh, she obviously wants a pardon. Yeah, clearly wants a pardon and could
2:27:48be a useful person for a pardon. Yeah, but I mean, again, she also doesn’t want to implicate herself in anything. So, you know, uh, every time
2:27:54she’s had a deposition, she’s been like, “Absolutely everyone powerful is innocent of all charges.” I mean, she
2:28:00doesn’t want to die. She thinks her father was murdered. She thinks Ebstein was murdered. She doesn’t want to get mur she doesn’t
2:28:05want to suicide. She doesn’t want to get murdered and she wants to get out of jail. I mean, it should be obvious. I don’t
2:28:11know. I think I mean, there were headlines during uh, you know, before Trump came back in office that she was trying to talk to the Biden
2:28:17administration to give them dirt on Trump. I mean, she’s just someone trying to wiggle her way out of a big problem. Yeah.
2:28:24God, this whole [ __ ] thing’s mental. But again, they’re just trying to control perception. So, they’re going to
2:28:30have a congressional hearing. They’re going to walk out the Clintons. They’re going to probably ask them softball questions. are not going to ask them
2:28:36about the 1990s. Uh because the China gate thing involved people close to
2:28:41Democrats and Republicans and you think that they would be all over it. It’s Clinton. It’s China. It’s a legal
2:28:48activity. Crickets. When you’re doing your various bits of investigative journalism, are there
2:28:54often overlaps? Are you just starting to see the whole thing now as just one big thing? I mean, there’s always overlaps. Yeah.
2:29:00It’s crazy. Yeah. It feels like you’re writing about the same story. Yeah. It’s just one big over and over again. Yeah. Well, because it’s it’s a criminal network that has
2:29:07operated without impunity and they’ve been able to pop off their competition and so they consolidate control. They
2:29:12centralize control and so, you know, they’re just going to keep doing that.
2:29:18I mean, Peter Teal frames himself as a libertarian, but he’s not. He says stuff like, um, free market competition is for
2:29:26losers. If you want to get rich, build a monopoly. That’s what these people have
2:29:32done. I I mean they’ve done it very successfully and Teal in particular when he builds
2:29:38monopolies like Palunteer he does it with state involvement. PayPal when they
2:29:44were making PayPal they went they say they went to every three-letter agency to talk to them as they were setting up their company. The thing is it becomes
2:29:50very hard to not look at the world through the lens of uh uh conspiracy
2:29:57because yeah even where I’m in the UK at the moment we’ve got people going to jail for writing tweets right we got
2:30:03minor you know we as normal people are held to such high standards in terms of
2:30:10uh uh crime and the law but these people have committed some of the most heinous
2:30:15horrific crimes and get away with it. It is just a it’s
2:30:21it’s this weird kind of I don’t know it’s like this global bgeoisi that gets
2:30:27to run the world with just this global network. Yeah. I mean they um are are
The Global Bourgeoisie
2:30:34unaccountable unaccountable because they’ve captured the institutions that would make them accountable theoretically
2:30:39everything. Yeah. By this point but I mean this is something that’s been going on for decades. If you have Samuel Paris go
2:30:44before Congress, he’s practically bragging about it. And he’s like, “Yeah, the nation states irrelevant because all
2:30:50of the companies that fund our US politicians are are going into business with our extensible adversaries.” And
2:30:57now there’s uh that’s who run the businesses run the world. What’s the nation state? The governments
2:31:02don’t. It’s businesses. Now governments are the enabling environment for policies written by the richest people
2:31:09in the world via groups like the World Economic Forum. That’s where all the billionaires go. You know, those think
2:31:15tanks, those entities, they make the policy and they filter them out to the governments. And the governments are the
2:31:20enabling environment for policies written by billionaires. You can kind of understand the the
2:31:26socialist argument against the billionaires based on that lens, not economically.
2:31:32I’m not here to say I know the solutions to these problems. And so I’m not going to be like it’s socialism, it’s that.
2:31:40But at the end of the day, regardless of what you think the solution is, organized crime should not be running
2:31:47the world, but they are. And what is the best way to extricate ourselves from it? It’s becoming economically independent.
2:31:54So, as an example, um why has Israel done so much to try and destroy the
2:32:01boycott, divest, and sanctions movement or BDS to the point that they’re having uh people they funded basically uh
2:32:08legislation in various states and in Congress of the US uh that make it uh you know, you can’t boycott Israel. You
2:32:15have to like sign an oath. You’re not going to boycott Israel for various things.
2:32:21Why? be because it it’s powerful when people do not economically engage because the money is they need it. A lot
2:32:27of the grift and and terrible things they’ve done are for profit, right? So if we stop being economically dependent
2:32:33on them and create a parallel system which has to be done at the local level, um then they stop having power over us,
2:32:41if we continue to be economically dependent on them, we are being herded into a a technocratic hellscape where
2:32:48they will have complete control over our lives because already there. Well, they have they’ll have complete control over our finances, but there’s
2:32:54still time once they eliminate uh cash and they have us all on surveillable programmable money, whether it’s public
2:33:02sector, this public sector version of that in CBDC’s or the private sector version of that which is you know in the
2:33:08US dollar stable coins uh which are openly partnered with the US government like Tether. It’s a public private
2:33:14partnership. Tether has the FBI and Secret Service on its platform. they openly say we’re a partner for US dollar
2:33:19hegemony. Um you know it’s uh it’s a public private partnership. Those are
2:33:25the two models we’re dealing with here. Um and that’s not freedom money. It may
2:33:30be marketed as such uh to you know people in in economies where they uh
2:33:35their local currency has a lot of problems but is you know um it’s complicated in the sense that you know
2:33:42the US had oversaw the dollarization of various countries in the world that lost
2:33:47control over their own finances. Um you know Ecuador is one, El Salvador is
2:33:53another one and then you know they’re dependent on what the Fed decides. We need everyone on Bitcoin.
2:33:59So if you globally dollarize and you you get everyone on the dollar, well, you have a new world currency and who gets
2:34:06to decide uh you know fiscal policy to a large extent. Again, the nation state
2:34:12has become irrelevant. It’s a it’s an empire and it’s an empire run by organized crime
2:34:17and [ __ ] that. [ __ ] hell.
Freedom or Economic Slavery?
2:34:23Okay. Well, is it if Sorry, final question. economic dependence is is not a good idea. If you
2:34:30don’t want to be somebody’s slave, you have to stop using the slavery money. Use Bitcoin. Um, okay. Final question.
2:34:39What What is for you? There might be multiple answers to this, but the the
2:34:44biggest unanswered question that you have. Oh, about the Epstein case? Yeah. But you can go wider if you want,
2:34:51but Oh, man. Well, not really sure how to answer that because I I mean, things I don’t know
2:34:57the answer to. I’ve like formed theories about like why they decided to go after Epste in 2019.
2:35:02But is there anything that like you like you’re always like, “Fuck, I wish I knew this.” Like,
2:35:08well, you know, we tried to get uh documents on Mark Middleton from the Clinton Presidential Library and they
2:35:14just will not respond. They have folders of Middleton stuff. I’m just like, “Please give it to me.” Cuz I think
2:35:20that’s a huge scandal. Um I think what Gary Webb stumbled upon was massive. I mean, obviously it happened a long time
2:35:26ago, but it still has very real effects today and would make people in the US very mad. Um, something really nasty was
2:35:34going on there. And I wonder if that was the second iteration of the Iran Contra people, the enterprise as they called
2:35:40themselves. What have they been doing since? It seems like they were doing ’08. They in my opinion had a hand in 9/11 in
2:35:48the US. What have they been doing since? Yeah, it feels like we should we should
2:35:53all be very angry, but I think we’ve also been engineered to not be angry. We’re all just like
2:35:58meh. Well, I don’t know. See, I feel like the Epstein is the one where it’s the hypernormalization thing. It’s like we have to keep this Epstein.
Why Epstein Was Kept Alive
2:36:06We have to keep it live. We have to keep people talking about it because it feels like the the it feels like the door that
2:36:11opens Pandora’s box to say, “Look, here it all is.” I think at this point you’re right. Yeah, because it is wellknown enough.
2:36:17Everyone’s a thread that if you pull on it helps expose how corrupt things are
2:36:23and like everybody knows about the case. Everybody was waiting for them to release the files. We were all
2:36:29disappointed. Uh we just got to keep it front of mind and people got to keep saying no this is not acceptable. Like
2:36:34give us the [ __ ] files. Tell us what’s going on. Yeah. And let it all [ __ ] burn down. Uh
2:36:41thanks Wish. Well, it’s not just about burning it down. It’s about putting something better in its place. Of course. And so I think the solutions
2:36:47there, you know, some people are like, “Oh, Whitney, your work is so demoralizing.” Well, I’m like, “Yeah, it sucks to find out that the mob runs the
2:36:53world, you know, but the question is, do you just want to let them keep running it because it bums you out, or do you
2:37:00want to say screw you guys, we’re going to build something else and get off your, you know, slave plantation
2:37:06basically?” Yeah. [ __ ] you guys. And I am in the group of I would like to build something else. I have three kids.
2:37:13I do not want them living in a world run by the mob. I agree. So, what are you going to do about it? I
2:37:19mean, it starts locally. It starts with your community because that’s where we can actually affect change. Uh, voting for left or right, blue or red. I mean,
2:37:27it’s just this pingpong thing where nothing fundamental is changing. And so, to affect that change, we have to do it
2:37:33ourselves. And you think this would be a core American value, um, individualism,
2:37:39individual responsibility. Uh, but a lot of people just don’t care.
2:37:45And so, you know, that sucks. Uh, but I think those of us that do care, uh, need to take steps to be as independent from
2:37:51the system as possible because, uh, every so often this predator class, they
2:37:58do wealth transfers and or they orchestrate and manufacture events and they make a big grab not just for our
2:38:04money, but for our rights, I think. And we’re at the point where we can’t really keep losing money and
2:38:10rights without being so deep in a hole that we can’t climb oursel out. Can’t climb out. So
2:38:16what what should we do before that happens? There is an important window of time to do something about it in our
2:38:23local community and for our families and our friends and our neighbors. And we have to do something because if we don’t and that thing
2:38:30happens, oh well, I watched all these podcasts and learned about how corrupt everything is, but
2:38:35you know, and I think they spend a lot of time trying to keep us distracted on all sorts of things and sucked into
2:38:42um, you know, Yeah. and things that don’t matter. Um, so that we just don’t,
2:38:50you know, give them the finger basically. And that’s what we really need to do. Yeah. [ __ ] you guys. Right. Should we go
Localism as the Solution
2:38:57get a pizza? Sounds good. Whitney, thank you. Uh, it’s long, it’s
2:39:02complicated, your work’s amazing. I’m glad you I would refer people uh to my books, One Nation Under Blackmail, volumes one and
2:39:09two. Um, there’s lots of footnotes for what I’ve said and they’re reputable sources. So, if you think I’m too
2:39:16conspiratorial or not a reputable source, please check my sourcing. Um,
2:39:21and, you know, decide for yourself. I’m not trying I’m not here trying to tell people what to believe. I’ve just done
2:39:27research about this because I found the case to be insane and and also interesting.
2:39:32Am I right? Volume one’s free. Uh, no. But you can read my books for free online on archive.org.
2:39:37No, no, no. Don’t do that. Go buy the [ __ ] book. Well, you can buy my book. Yeah, but I care more about the information coming out. Yeah,
2:39:43honestly. I I would like people to engage with this stuff and understand the power structure. So, I mean, it is available on there and archive.org is
2:39:50fighting uh legal battle after legal battle to take it offline. Uh and they’re a very important resource. So if
2:39:56you want to donate money, donate money to them. I must have bought volume one a long time ago, though, cuz I when we were
2:40:01prepping for this, I went to buy them both and volume one, it just said download and then I bought volume two. So I must have already bought volume one
Outro
2:40:08a long time ago. Well, some people get lost in the sauce in volume one because it’s really the context for volume two. So volume two is
2:40:13the book about Epstein. And when I’m talking about Epstein, just in like the first chapter, I’m bringing up BCCI.
2:40:19Okay, I’m bringing up Iran Contra and figures like Koshogi. I bring up Maxwell. Volume one needed to be created
2:40:25because a lot of people don’t understand the extent of what BCCI really was, what Iran Contra really was, the stuff Kosogi
2:40:31was doing, the savings and loans crisis. I mean, you have to understand all the stuff these people were orchestrating
2:40:36during this period of time to understand where Epste fits in. Because Iran Contra, for example, it’s remembered as
2:40:41an arms for hostages scandal. It was much more than that. There were drugs. There was a whole Latin American
2:40:48theater that was just crazy. I mean, all sorts of things are folded into that, but you have to be dialed in when you’re
2:40:53listening. So, when I was when I was driving and listened to the first book, I was following it. I was fine. When I
2:40:59was sat at home trying to listen to it and there was distractions, a lot of kids around. I was like, I couldn’t. You’ve got to get proper dialed in
2:41:05because it’s dense. And like I said, the details are necessary because we we’re
2:41:10left with crumbs. But you have enough crumbs and you put them together, you can sort of map out what’s going on.
2:41:17Yeah, there’s some gaps here and there, but the picture, I think, and a lot of people that have read my book think is clear enough that you can more or less
2:41:23figure out that something very bad was going on. And at the very least, there needs to be an
2:41:29investigation. But again, these hearings, a lot of these stuff going on, I think it’s for Shell because a lot of
2:41:34this deeper stuff, they’re not interested in in touching with a 10-ft pole. Please don’t release it. Uh we we’ll
2:41:39share on the show notes. Thank Thanks, Whitney. And people listen, buy the books. You can get them for free, but
2:41:44buy them. Support Whitney. Um, let’s go get pizza. Thank you. Sounds good. Thanks. Thank you, everyone.
2:41:51[Music]
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